pcfarrar Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Just thought I'd start a thread in preparation for the UK shinsa which is only 3 weeks away. Would be great to know who's going to be attending. I'm submitting 3 katana and 1 wakizashi. Hoping for Bizen Omiya on the wak, with one katana a guaranteed Bungo :D I will post my results to this thread as soon as I have them. Quote
RobertM Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 i didnt even know there was a UK Shinsa. I take it all the places are booked Ive had a nice little tanto that id have loved to get papered. Robert M Quote
Mark C Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 I'll be there on the Saturday. Submitting 4 swords also, 1 mumei Katana, 1 mumei & 1 signed wakizashi and 1 signed tanto. Hopefuly see you there. Regards Mark Quote
pcfarrar Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Posted October 9, 2008 RobertM said: i didnt even know there was a UK Shinsa. I take it all the places are booked They did have some spaces left a few weeks back. You could try contacting Paul Bowman who is a member of this board. Quote
mfarrar Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 My two submissions for the Shinsa: Katana detail: Wakizashi detail: Will post the results! Quote
Stephen Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 MFar nice set of swords, lets hope they dont give it gendaito, looks koto bizen katana Quote
mfarrar Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Im hoping for koto for both, wouldn't be happy if it came back gendaito lol! Shin Shinto I guess is always a possibility but wouldn't mind that aslong as its a reasonable smith. Atleast I cant get gimei :-) Quote
shan Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Hi all, I would love to post just the one sword for UK shinsa but i cannot get it polished in time unless i have a place. It is a possibly early Blade and maybe Heian.Its Boshi needs a little repair but its all there. What do you think? would you Give up one of your places to get something like this shinsa? :D Can you get it in in time Paul? Sorry about the images i a rubbish at getting them the right size and to show in the message window. regards shan Quote
Brian Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Shan, Ouch on that kissaki. Are you sure there is enough boshi to fix it properly? You would need quite a bit of boshi there to be able to repair that. Brian Quote
Ian Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Hello all I have six in total going in. Anyone willing to take a guess at this one:?: Quote
Jacques Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Hi, Quote It is a possibly early Blade and maybe Heian The sugata does not indicate a heian or Kamakura blade Quote
shan Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Hi all,With reference to my possibly Heian sword blade and Jacques comment. The jury is hung on that one, as the blade is very O-suriage,the tip is chipped and the whole thing is out of polish. early Bizen Osafune school,Yamato,Early kamakura,early or late muromachi etc..etc no-one can decide in its present condition.Even a statment that its a chinese Fake from a reputed Dealer. Some very advanced collectors say maybe it is Heian and others say other slightly later things.Its an enigma Blade ,a freak item.This is why it needs to get polished and sent to shinsa.If you held it and had a good look you would start to question an opinion you had on it.Its a very elegant feel to it.The steel has the look of wet aluminium.Its a poor statement but "the steel is quite fine and pale compared to my other swords and looks slightly "wet" (if that makes scense) It has Utsuri.It has a very high shinogi. The sugata on this item that steers them towards Heian or early Kamakura,the fumbari and Ko kissaki is the other,but i hear what you are saying,it could be much later,thats why shinsa is required. I think this could start a very lengthy depate if offered up for shinsa or even Kantei on this forum. As for the boshi Brian,i hope there is enough left but your right there may not be.Several polishers have said it can be saved though(if it was Heian it might still be a nice item) I will get it done and keep my Fingers crossed.If it is rubbish,then i have learned something. best regards shan Quote
Jacques Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Hi, shan, My thoughts. This blade is not a Heian or a Kamakura one, the whole sugata does not show the elegance usually found on this kind of blade. The kissaki is not a Ko-kissaki but a broken chu-kissaki (look at the ko-shinogi length) badly repaired. Seeing an utsuri on a blade not polished is a great phantasm but not possible (sometimes, there are enough difficult to see them when the blade is perfectly polished). The hamon (for what i can see) seems looking Mino. Mino-den does not exist in Heian and Kamakura times. Now, it is your blade and your money and you have the right to submit it at shinsa but i fear that it will be rejected. Quote
Stephen Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 with Jacq on this, save your money. Quote
Guido Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 I thought the day would never come , but I'm 100% with Jacques on this one, up to it possibly being Mino. I don't know to whom you've been talking, Shan, but I'm afraid there will be no lengthy debate on *this* forum. You've constantly seeing Goto in your fittings, and now Heian in your sword; this is kind of alarming. If you don't mind some advise: sell the sword and the other fittings you showed us so far, and pull the Boston catalog from eBay: it's the only real collector's item you have. Invest the earnings from the sale into a good library, and become a member of the NBTHK and British Token Society (you're located in the UK, right?). It won't take long and you'll have a good laugh about "how I started out" . Quote
Brian Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Guido Schiller said: I thought the day would never come , but I'm 100% with Jacques on this one.... With the worldwide stock markets crashing and in turmoil...and now this statement....is the world ending?? Shan, I get the idea you aren't as much a total beginner as you portray on tv, and perhaps have more swords and contacts than you let on. How about a bit of an intro (this goes for any new members) so that we know where to advise from? I am with Jacques, Guido and Stephen on this one. It would be a seriously expensive restoration and one that would probably not have the return for your money. If you are rolling in cash, by all means do it. Would be interesting to see where it goes. But logically, better to spend the money on other swords or fittings. Then again, with the state of the GBP...you can probably do both :lol: Brian Quote
shan Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Hi all, Well i suppose i am a bit "bottom end" on my collection. If as you say its that bad then i will Keep my money as you have sugested...for now.It was bought as a possible Bizen Osafune 1500`s but the seller thought it may have been much older and maybe Heian because of the sugata. I still believe that it has some merit its just a feeling you get when holding it, but it may just be me being "open to sugestion". It may also be unsalvagable but several togoshi think it can be saved.I expect at a compromise to the shape. Its nothing like any of my other blades,steel,shape and jihada are all ...Very different and this makes me want to look further into the blade.But again maybe i am looking too hard.It will be polished if it is at all possible in april/may along with a blade signed soshu kamakura Tosaburo Yukimitsu and dated Gentoku ?? 2 gatsu 15 hi.I doubt any of them would be considered special but i want to see them restored anyway. I can be realistic if pointed in the right direction (occasionally)and i have no really great blades so cannot truly judge them. Perhaps i am looking at trash and seeing art. There are many levels of collector according to there own budget and exposure to great blades.I am but the very bottom of the barrel (but happy) :D thankyou all for your (as always very helpful )insight and wisdom. You control my "flights of Fancy" and keep me firmly on the ground.(which someone has to) kindest regards shan Quote
deskjet Posted October 11, 2008 Report Posted October 11, 2008 hi , I will be there on Sunday ,bit of a mixed bag .yari ,tanto ,waks and katana ,hoping for good results ,but have a couple of dubious ones . Anthony Quote
shan Posted October 11, 2008 Report Posted October 11, 2008 I wish you all the best of luck with your items. I will be at the next one in a few years time and hopefully more knowledgable. I hope you all keep the forum updated as to what did (and what didn`t) get papered with some images for us all to see. Go on show off and hotdog it a little,you know you want to. regards shan Quote
pcfarrar Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Posted October 13, 2008 Nihonto-uk said: Hello allI have six in total going in. Anyone willing to take a guess at this one:?: I would like to say Ichimonji but the odds are it will turn out shin-shinto Quote
Ian Posted October 14, 2008 Report Posted October 14, 2008 I would like to say so also. It all points that way but who can say but them on the day! Thank you for the reply Peter! Quote
Stephen Posted October 14, 2008 Report Posted October 14, 2008 yes it must be the day and lighting, as they gave this to gendaito along with another members koto blade to the same smith. Gendaito smith, Hidatoshi this was later giving koto Katsumitsu den by NTHK npo at their shinsa. so if it comes out a head shaker take it for what its worth. Quote
mfarrar Posted October 14, 2008 Report Posted October 14, 2008 Thats quite a difference of opinion! Though to be fair Hidetoshi did forge some nice swords: http://www.nihontoantiques.com/images/H ... 0copy2.jpg Gendaito's though in my experience never have the activity of koto blades and I dont think even the highly rated ones I have owned could be compared with a good koto blade. Dont they have lights for viewing the swords? Surely they dont just use ambient lighting to judge? My katana is gunto mounted with family mon, so im hoping it is an old blade that has been past down through generation. I think it is most likely Kanbun Shinto with a possibility of Shin Shinto latest. If my naginata naioshi wak isn't either koto or early shinto I will be shocked! Hopefully it will come back as Nambokucho but will have to wait and see. Quote
Stephen Posted October 14, 2008 Report Posted October 14, 2008 Looking forward to the results, good luck. Quote
shan Posted October 16, 2008 Report Posted October 16, 2008 I have now managed to sneak in two slots at the Shinsa this november. I will be submitting a Mumei Wakizashi and the Kanetsune Tanto. My fingers are crossed that the Kanetsune is not Gimei. regards shan Quote
Jean Posted October 21, 2008 Report Posted October 21, 2008 Shan, Kanetsune is a big name in sue Mino. Specialized sometimes in suguba. I would have expected a more stouter suguta, makes me think of some Bizen kiyomitsu tantos. Check in books the yasurime which seem to be kiri on your pictures, is it normal for Kanetsune? unusual for Mino. Quote
shan Posted October 21, 2008 Report Posted October 21, 2008 Hi Jean, I have asked for help on this one before and got 0 replies from 270 viewings of the post. I am unsure that it is either a very clean looking Nekago and is later 1700`s period or it is the later Kanetsune from 1865-8 that later changed his name to Munetsune. Its a big guess But i am sure this is not any of the better known smiths of same name from the 1600`s to 1700`s or earlier unless its an obscure smith of the same name. I had a look in the connoisseurs book of Japanese swords but cannot find anything that sugests the mino schools Yasureme. The sugata however seems consistent with the proposed age of the blade.(1860`s) I really don`t want to offer it up for shinsa if there is a doubt that the nthk team would consider this later kanetsune and just Gimei it based on the 1500`s 1600`s or 1700`s mei examples which are clearly different. Can you offer any reason why it might not be be a genuine mei? It is boldly carved and shows familiarity with the kanji. I have another offering for shinsa if this is in doubt and will pull it out for that other blade. This is a more realistic appearence of the nekago as the flash didn`t fire on the image and make it shiny. regards shan Quote
Jean Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Hi Shan, Nakago and yasurime seem fresh enough. Difficult to judge the age but the mei is perfectly cut and yasurime easy to see, so maybe shinshinto but only shinsa can answer your question on the smith jidai and for this NTHK is better than NTHK Quote
Jacques Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Hi, Quote shinsa can answer your question on the smith jidai and for this NTHK is better than NTHK I'm not really sure Tagane makura are vigorous. that indicates the mei was not engraved since a long time. Like Jean i think it could be shinshinto. Quote
Brian Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Yes, I'm also waiting for Jean to replace the missing "B" in one of those Shinshinto here too..or gimei. The mei looks well done, but fresh. Still, shinshinto wouldn't be a bad result if shoshin. Worth a slot imho. Brian Quote
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