Advice to which smith or line to study more of.

[BjornLundin]

Dear everyone, 

 

I have just discussed my second nihonto, a possible sukesada. This is my third blade. This blade has characteristics that I for now enjoy very much. I have tried to take pictures but it is hard and probably I need an anti glare filter for the camera. It is better in real life (for me anyhow).

 

It has been discussed from what I can see in these threads, the mei looks very similar.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5419-the-economics-of-sword-collecting/?hl=%2Bshuri+%2Bsuke&do=findComment&comment=50238

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5415-morimitsu/?hl=%2Bshuri+%2Bsuke&do=findComment&comment=50219

 

It has small irregular roundish hamon line that really glow when light is right. The hada is my eyes is very nice also For me when holding it makes me glad. 

 

If it is oei-bizen Morimitsu or not doesn´t matter but I am wondering what bizen smiths have this characteristics so that I can look for a comrade to it. 

 

I will try to take better pictures. 

 

All the best Bjorn

 

[BjornLundin]

Additional pictures. My mobil camera is right now little better on taking photos than my canon 70D.

 

Edit. last pictures was the sukesada, so it was added by accident,.

 

-B

[Brian]

Good looking blade there. Always nice to have bohi and soe-hi. Hamon looks nice too.

[BjornLundin]

Thank you. I was wondering if it has been shortened due to what it looks like under the habaki?

[Brian]

Most important pics to post are overall ones showing the whole sword, both sides.
Then entire shots close up of the whole nakago. Both sides. Vertically.

[CSM101]

For comparison: Bizen Morimitsu.

 

Uwe G.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I'll let other to evaluate artistic qualities and offer assistance in identifying on that field. I'll give some info about the signature if it is indeed the same sword that was on earlier threads and it is dated.

 

Like Moriyama-san identified in earlier thread the signature and dating on your sword is 修理亮盛光 / 応永拾年二月日 = Shūri no Suke Morimitsu / Ōei 10 nen ni gatsu hi (1403). My focus in here is in the kanji 拾 used for 10. It might not be common knowledge but after looking at thousands of signatures my own analysis shows the use of this kanji for 10 in years did not appear (I haven't yet found an example) before Bunmei (1469-1487). The earliest dated signatures I've seen this appear are Tadamitsu signature 1478 and Katsumitsu & Munemitsu sword dated 1486. I have recorded nearly 1000 dated signatures pre-1450 and this kanji does not appear in any of them. Most commonly this rare kanji appears in Keichō era (1596-1615) signatures.

 

Of course this is kinda extremely specific info that is impossible to know for beginning collectors and pretty much to most collectors who have not been extremely fixated with mei.

 

I think this sword is much better than the Sukesada you posted earlier. As you said in the opening post you can see characteristics of this sword much better than in the Sukesada.

[BjornLundin]

Thank you Jussi, interesting about the kanji. Uwe that blade looked very similar. I like the what looks like a water droplet in the hamon.

 

I include the date side also ????

[Ken-Hawaii]

Setting the blade on the backdrop, rather than the shirasaya, makes it a lot easier to see, Bjorn.

 

As far as which "line" (school or Gokaden), I recommend reading https://www.zmescience.com/science/a-startling-number-of-coronavirus-patients-get-reinfected/

[BjornLundin]

Will, take new pictures. Corona strains and reinfections is alarming. Read it and and more clueless now about the mysteries of Nihonto .

[BjornLundin]

Hi, hope this picture helps.

 

-Bjorn

[Ken-Hawaii]

Bjorn, my humble apologies! I pasted in the wrong URL on my last post. It should be http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/articles/Collecting.pdf

 

You've got the right idea on that photo, but it has to be lots bigger (i.e., higher resolution) so we can see the details of the jihada & hamon.

[BjornLundin]

Ah. Still learning. See for every step I am a step closer on the path of enlightment. I will try to setup a better quality photo. Or does the attachment here reduce quality? Size of photo gets markedly lower.

 

Thank you for the link. I read parts of it and will read it in more detail tomorrow, and during the wekeend. For me, I do appreciate workmanship and art. I have collected a few old and new pieces of bizen yaki, maybe not for everyone but I like the moment when the potter lets nature (kiln) form the surface.... Anyway a bit like nihonto swords where both nature and the skill of the smith form the end product. Then it is bizen, maybe that is foolish but I do like Okayama ???? and what conection it has with me personaly.

 

Then I like also that there is a hunt for acessory parts and what style would fit the blade the most.

 

For now I will study my swords, take in more information ask a lot more questions and look for that special object.

 

Anyone know what the water droplet hamon is called?

 

Ty all

 

-Bjorn

[Ken-Hawaii]

That hamon might be tobiyaki or hitatsura. Have to see it to be sure.

[Jacques]

Osafune taikan doesn't quote any wakizashi with this mei and nengo (41 swords are quoted).

[BjornLundin]

Hi,

 

I was wondering if I could get any advice on this "maybe" Morimitsu blade?  My plan of action was to send it for polish in Europe this year and when money and time permits take it to Japan or USA for shinsa.

 

I ponder upon different paths:

 

1. Morimitsu is the smith, blade is ok, and the signature is authenticated.  --> Shinsa ok

2. Morimitsu is the smith, blade is ok, and the signature is added later on --> Will it paper then?

3. Morimitsu is not deemed the smith, blade is ok, and signature is gimei --> Will it paper then? Will you get any information of what smith they judge and/or advice to proceed?

 

What would your advice be to go forward. Right now I have made my own shirasaya for the time beeing, since the WWII sheet was in really bad condition, is there any good shirasaya maker in Europe? and should I sent it for shirasaya making before or after a possible polish?

 

Thank you for your advice!

 

-Bjorn

[Rivkin]

A very personal opinion - its gimei.

Morimitsu Oei is a big name.

The writing of Muromachi Bizen smiths is very distinctive. The cuts are not deep, but the pressure is very confident and uniform. Here the writing is visibly shaky. Yet the characters are all excellently preserved. The patina is a tad light for the age. But either of these things sometimes can be a photo artifact. A full resolution macro of both sides as is, not with the nmb's extra compression would help.

 

This being said, the work itself does not categorically disagrees with Morimitsu.

 

Kirill R.

[BjornLundin]

Hi, yes. It is possible that the signature is added afterwords or not. Blade itself looks for me to be of rather high quality. So what would the advice be?

[Rivkin]

[?]

Gimei typically means later signature. The blade is Muromachi and most likely Bizen. Quality cannot be assessed by such pictures.

I would begin with high resolution, low compression photos of nakago all kanji included. The good thing I like about it is the location of all kanji and spacing between them is right for the period. Need to check the details.

 

Sorry did not check Jussi's post earlier - yes Morimitsu used different "ten".

 

Kirill R.

[BjornLundin]

Hi, I tried to upload better close up and linking it to imgur. From the mobil camera it looks to be some red marks (rust) in some of the date signs. In real life, it is hard for me to see if it is there or not. Could be a camera artefact. I rather think the cuts are not so deep, and maybe there is a difference between the date side and the signature side in term of confidence?... Shakingness could be my hands Will try to make a better rig to take photos. Cant get the photo to work --- tried both png and jpg on imgur and none worked here....

 

Post one picture of a fukure? in the bo-hi, is it possible to do something about this? or leave it be and hope for the best that a polish will not open it up?

 

mei

https://imgur.com/a/zGJeFb6

 

blade

https://imgur.com/a/hmZ46bL

[BjornLundin]

Update is coming, the blade is in the hands of a polisher now. First reaction, was that the hamon does not reflect Morimitsu but otherwise a high quality blade that deserves a polish. When I get it back I will post update pictures and ask of advice how to proceed to shinsa.

[Babu]

Yes I wouldn't say it was Hitatsura really it's not any hitatsura I've seen anyway.

For me hitatsura covers a lot of the blade and the shinogi ji. It's all over the place ,ergo Hitatsura.

Nice hamon though 

[BjornLundin]

Added some pictures of the Hafa on Tumblr.

 

https://larqurian.tumblr.com/post/629598984357527552/bizen-blade

 

The right side is more varied, and left side muted. Lots of variations... Tadpole hamon?

 

https://larqurian.tumblr.com/post/629598717233774592/blade

 

https://larqurian.tumblr.com/post/629598641659772928/bizen-blade

 

 

[Babu]

I honestly don't find external images very useful. I cannot zoom into them on my phone as I can images submitted directly to the forum and in years to come as a reference point for study your images will not exist which is very frustrating. 

Can you perhaps add them directly to your post Bjorn? 

It looks like gunome midare to me. 

Hitatsura is open to interpretation but generally it will have tempering in the shinogi ji as well and on the jihada. 

This blade is hitatsura and has tempering martensite in the hi groove and onto the mune. Appreciate they are poor images but they should still serve to explain. 

[Tom Darling]

Adam,  there is one detail,  I would like to view, if you would take a couple pic of the kassaki area,  without the glare. Thank you.

 

Tom D.

[Tom Darling]

Bjorn, you do realize the ha-machi is damaged. I believe it will need to be moved up, along with muni-machi.  You will not get papers on a gimei sword. The Ishido school made works  in the style of Bizen den.  Also, Gassan Sadayoshi made work styles of Bizen Den.  In the bo-hi (shinogi-ji) the masame grain or parallel grain is a very strong characteristic of  shinto blades. Good luck.

 

Tom D.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Bjorn, one thing catches my eye. Almost invariably, Koto blades have an identical pattern from hamon into boshi, but yours looks different.

[BjornLundin]

Hi Tom, the sword is in the hand of the polisher. I hope he will adress all the faults he can find.

 

Great that you point it out, I dont think I noticed it before. 

 

I know, gimei will not paper but the overall recomendation on the net looks to send it first for shinsa then if it fails go for a second option. I am reluctant to remove the signature, it looks to have been there for a very long time. Thus removing the signature is like removing the history of the blade  but I know fake right, not a good feeling. 

 

Ken, yes I know and I have looked. The name that strikes my amatuer brain is Mitsutada. 

 

I do think it is a koto blade. Shinto feels wrong 😋 again amatuerish knowledge. I hope the polisher can give some information or point in the right way.

 

I need a shirasaya to the blade later, any recomendations in EU? Or maybe UK? My homemade one is not the best after polish.

 

Will try to link photos. 

[BjornLundin]

On 9/20/2020 at 11:29 PM, Ken-Hawaii said:

Bjorn, one thing catches my eye. Almost invariably, Koto blades have an identical pattern from hamon into boshi, but yours looks different.

 

I changed my mind, when looking back at the kissaki on the photos I had I think the right side hamon into boshi follow each other, left side is more "muted" compared to the left side hamon. 

 

 

 

Hada picture

[BjornLundin]