Kyu Corner

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, Hamish said:

post tha

I love that yours has the 山 yama of the shop name.

[Bruce Pennington]

Dang!  Sharpened on both edges!  That's really cool. 

[lonely panet]

heres the teaser, ill do these when i good a ready hahhahahaha. almost like a ransom 

[Bruce Pennington]

I always surprises me at the wide variety in the Type 8/19.

[lonely panet]

there only type 19s in that pic, your would be very lucky to ever see that many type 8s  in that good of condition in your life

[lonely panet]

onlone sale not mine,

 

a yamomoto kyu gunto 

Imperial Japanese Army Saber Guntō Simulated sword for ritual preparation Twelve days foot print Yamato Yae Sakura At that time | Jauce Shopping Service | Yahoo Japan Auctions. EBay Japan

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Hamish said:

onlone sale not mine,

 

a yamomoto kyu gunto 

Imperial Japanese Army Saber Guntō Simulated sword for ritual preparation Twelve days foot print Yamato Yae Sakura

Posting photos for posterity

 

That's a mon I haven't seen before too!

[Stegel]

Nice group Hamish, also the one on sale appears very nice.

[raaay]

And one from me .

 

A  rare one i think  !  i have only seen one other with a shi-shi as part of the back strap   , also i am not sure what this Mon  is if purely a  military issue sword ,

 

 

 

cutting edge - 27 & 3/4" 

gold bullion sword knot   

 

Ray

[Bruce Pennington]

26 minutes ago, raaay said:

shi-shi as part of the back strap

Can't say I've ever seen anything like that sword!  Dawson has some fully custom kyu, with dragons and skulls on the handguard, so it's not unheard of. 

 

Not familiar with "shi-shi".  What is that?  Also have you had the kanji translated on the guard?

[raaay]

 

Hi Bruce

 

the only other one i have seen and it had an  identical Kyu Gunto hilt , was on eBay 2/3 years ago it sold for $1800.00 ! if i remember correctly,. which surprised me at the time .

 

it was supposed to have  been used during  the Korean campaign ??   but who can believe everything you see or read on eBay .

 

as you can tell i could not get a good clear pic of the Kanji which is presumably the manufacturer of the sword guard  !  maybe someone will recognize it on here . 

[Bruce Pennington]

6 minutes ago, raaay said:

a good clear pic of the Kanji which is presumably the manufacturer of the sword guard 

I've posted it on the Translation Help forum.  Maybe someone can give us an idea.

 

You didn't explain your "shi shi" term.  Googling it, I get "urine" and "truth". 

[raaay]

18 minutes ago, raaay said:

 

Hi Bruce

 

the only other one i have seen and it had an  identical Kyu Gunto hilt , was on eBay 2/3 years ago it sold for $1800.00 ! if i remember correctly,. which surprised me at the time .

 

it was supposed to have  been used during  the Korean campaign ??   but who can believe everything you see or read on eBay .

 

as you can tell i could not get a good clear pic of the Kanji which is presumably the manufacturer of the sword guard  !  maybe someone will recognize it on here . 

 

10 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I've posted it on the Translation Help forum.  Maybe someone can give us an idea.

 

You didn't explain your "shi shi" term.  Googling it, I get "urine" and "truth".  

Hi Bruce

 

the only other one i have seen and it had an  identical Kyu Gunto hilt , was on eBay 2/3 years ago it sold for $1800.00 ! if i remember correctly,. which surprised me at the time .

 

it was supposed to have  been used during  the Korean campaign ??   but who can believe everything you see or read on eBay .

 

as you can tell i could not get a good clear pic of the Kanji which is presumably the manufacturer of the sword guard  !  maybe someone will recognize it on here . 

 

shishi as in Lion Dog , just as you see in many menuki and sword fittings . 

[raaay]

Bruce

 

 I edited my  last post  ,  but not sure if you seen the comments ,   shishi  / Lion Dog  is on the back strap , as i said you see them  on many sword fittings  .

[BANGBANGSAN]

I think this "SHI SHI" could be Lion（Shi Zi 獅子）instead Lion Dog(Shi Zi Gou 獅子狗）,it might related to "Lion sword"（獅刀）,those swords was developed in the early 1920s by 北洋政府（The Warlord government of Northern China that developed from the Qing Beiyang army ）。 Depending on the rank, the sword has from one lion up to 12 lions on it.
1920年2月29日，时任民国北洋政府大总统的徐世昌公布颁给狮刀的大总统规则令，随后，国务总理、陆军总长靳云鹏和海军总长萨镇冰发布第七号教令，正式建立起了北洋政府的“狮刀”制度。
“狮刀”制度的颁给规则共有十二条：
第一条 颁给狮刀，以陆少军官佐为限。
第二条 各等狮刀，由大总统特颁，不得呈请奖给。
第三条 一狮刀至三狮刀，颁给中级官佐。
第四条 四狮刀至六狮刀，颁给上级官佐。
第五条 七狮刀到九狮刀，颁给有特殊勋绩之上级官佐。
第六条 十二狮刀，除大总统佩带外，得由大总统特赠外国大总统、外国皇帝君主或体国曾任大总统者。
第七条 陆海军官佐，由大总统特令颁给狮刀者，应由陆军部或海军部注册 。
第八条 已颁给狮刀者，得晋给多狮之狮刀，其前颁之狮刀，无庸缴回。
第九条 一狮刀至六狮刀，发交陆军部或海军部颁给。
第十条 七狮九至九狮刀，由大总统亲授，其在京外者，得遣派专员代授之。
第十一条 十二狮刀之赠与，由大总统特派专使行之。
第十二条 大总统亲授狮刀之礼节，参照授勋之礼节行之。

 

[ribendao]

The badge/mon looking thing on the back of the "lion sword" looks like the flag of the Wuchang Uprising. Afterwards it was used as the flag for the Republic of China.

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, ribendao said:

The badge/mon looking thing on the back of the "lion sword" looks like the flag of the Wuchang Uprising. Afterwards it was used as the flag for the Republic of China.

Yes, it should be.Check out the Budge on 雲南護國軍 YunNan Nation Protection Army sword handle.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

I'd say you guys nailed it!  So, is Ray's sword a Chinese sword of the 1915'ish era?

[PNSSHOGUN]

Chinese sword but made in Japan, interesting.

[raaay]

I was always convinced it is Japanese , could it have been made or commisioned for another country's arm forces ? 

 

somewhere i have copy from a few years ago , of the duplicate Kyu-Gunto sword that was sold on eBay ,   i am going from memory  i am sure they suggested it was for the Korean or Sino -Russian campaign ?

 

But it looks like it is an interesting and  Rare model  !

 

also i see there is in the translation section,  An excellent reply  about the Japanese   company and the company history  that made these parade sabers.

[ribendao]

Yes, after looking at some posts in the translation section they said the stamp on the hand guard is that of KK Suya Shōten  株式會社･壽屋商店 .

Some also lined this article: https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/he-untold-story-suya-shoten-711132/
 

I skimmed the article but it appears this manufacturer designed many of the uniforms and sword for the Japanese military in the late 1800s. Then in the 1910s and 1920s began exporting to neighboring Asian countries. I believe this sword is one of his exports to China during that time. 

[Kaigunto230]

I’ve got a baby on the way, so I’m saving my pennies little by little for a hopeful late spring 2022 purchase. I’ve always loved Kyu Gunto given Meiji history and the East meets West quality. 
 

I ran into this one at a military antiques store for $1950. I didn’t notice until later that my photos of the sword itself are bad (can’t see hada or hamon), but it’s a Shinshinto mumei (allegedly, I didn’t ask to disassemble). 
 

Thoughts on the price of the package? Saya looks good and the d-guard appears frosty to me, plus there’s a mon. Sword is probably nothing amazing but was Nihonto. At $2k though, it’s where I want to be able to resell and not lose money if necessary in order to fund a bigger purchase down the line.

 

Edit -I apologize  for the photos being the wrong way; I’ve never had that problem and can’t seem to fix it.

 

Third from the bottom. Also, look at the MASSIVE type 19. I’m 6’2” and it was so awkward to hold; I wondered if it was only a display piece.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

If you're planned to re-sell, $2,000 is too high.  He's asking above the high end of market price for it already.  Most nice kyu run $1,200-1,800, but my numbers may be dated.  The market is climbing on all swords lately.  And I certainly wouldn't pay that much without seeing the nakago.  Many of these are zoheito, or factory blades.  Mine is gorgeous, but it's a zoheito, not nihonto, and I paid $1,200, which was a good market value price, at the time.

 

Amazing Type 19!  Needs to go in the Large Gunto thread!

 

Another interesting gunto is the Rinji in the display case in your 3rd photo.  Probably an RJT-made blade.

[Kaigunto230]

Thanks @Bruce Pennington! I didn’t have funds saved up and didn’t want to bother the shop owner knowing I wouldn’t purchase anything, so I erred on my full check up (and photos) of the sword. When I go, checking the nakago will be critical. 
 

Thanks for extra context on pricing. From dealers’ swords, I thought it was a little under even. 
 

$3k Mumei shinshinto - https://www.artswords.com/a_nice_katana_mounted_in_Imperial_Japanese_kyu_Gunto_Mounts_042508.htm

 

$2900 - another Mumei shinshinto - https://japanesesword.com/for-sale-pages/2017/9/25/shinto-katana-in-d-guard-mounts

[Bruce Pennington]

Well, I may be out of date on pricing. However keep in mind dealers price at the very tip top of the market value, if not over the top sometimes.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Looks to be very nice, strong sugata, mounts are in fine condition and a Kiri-Mon. You will struggle to find better ones in that condition, never hurts to make an offer if you have the money.

[Corry]

5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

... if not over the top sometimes.

 

LOLOL!! I have seen some dealer prices at 2 times value or more etc CrAzY. These folks (unethical dealers/not all dealers)  like to prey on ignorant newbies. I get it, they need to make a profit, but big diff between a good profit and gauging. IMHO

[Kaigunto230]

@PNSSHOGUN thanks! It was the nicest mounts I’ve seen on a kyu in person, and I did love the feel of the longer tzuka. Part of it is fate, in that the shop isn’t in my area but I’ll be there this spring, so if it’s still available, I’ll see if the owner will entertain offers.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Michael , that groove and habaki tell me that this is almost certainly a mass produced late blade that is not even tempered  . I would give it a big miss . Something better is sure to turn up .

Ian Brooks

[IJASWORDS]

My Kyu with a grooved blade. A papered (Shodai) YOSHICHIKA.