Mantetsu copy?

[Stephen]

Was considering a bid but cant get past the patina on nakago...looks sprayed on. My fears confirmed by our Mantetsu guru and his confirming with his guru.

Anyway whats your take

 

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/r380585034?

[16k]

I haven’t my papers for the date, what is it supposed to be? MU corresponds to 1942 from memory. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Mantetsu with polisher’s barcode signature. At the very least, it’s been repolished.

 

and if 42 is correct, they still had Koa Isshin in the mei. Now I’m doing this from memory, so might be wrong.

[Kiipu]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Mantetsu with polisher’s barcode signature.

 

Already translated via the link below.

 

Mantetsu help

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/31155-mantetsu-help/

[Stephen]

Yes Thomas...my thread... Your take on the sword?

[Kiipu]

Yes Thomas...my thread... Your take on the sword?

 

Apparently at least one other Mantetsu sword, serial カ 二二八, has surfaced in recent years with a similar inscription coming via Japan.

Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey/Study

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/attention-mantetsu-owners-survey-study-715028/

 

However, at least one collector thinks these type of inscriptions are suspect.

Gen. Yamashita's sword and why those Generals' and Colonels' swords are fake

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/gen-yamashitas-sword-why-those-generals-colonels-swords-fake-732422/

 

All of the above subject to revision by Bruce & JP, Co., Ltd., of course.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Kiipu

[Bruce Pennington]

I haven’t my papers for the date, what is it supposed to be? MU corresponds to 1942 from memory. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Mantetsu with polisher’s barcode signature. At the very least, it’s been repolished.

 

and if 42 is correct, they still had Koa Isshin in the mei. Now I’m doing this from memory, so might be wrong.

Nice work JP, and all from memory!!!

 

I'll hold my comments until we get all the input we can.

[Stephen]

Why not be part of the input? Lol

[PNSSHOGUN]

Modern fake, the same group doing the Komonjo/yahoojp Gimei, they often have such dubious inscriptions like this. Authentic inscriptions are more likely to be the smith inscribing that the sword was respectfully made for General XXXX.

[16k]

However, the guys rating seems pretty good! 

[Bruce Pennington]

Sure, most buyers would never know it's a fake. They'd be exceptionally happy to receive this gunto.

 

The discrepancies are subtle. The file marks are sloppy and thinly applied. I compared a Mu 89, which would only be 2 blades apart from this one, and it's marks are precise and more deeply cut. That alone wouldn't put me off, but a heavier mark against this one is the mei. I have 42 1942's on file and they are ALL Koa Isshin mei. This mei, 満鉄鍛造之, doesn't appear on Mantetsu blades until 1943. I'll admit, one should never say never, nor always! BUT, this blade would be a first if legit.

 

Add to this, like Thomas said, there have been 3 other "probable" fakes appear recently (Komonjo sales) that have the same polisher marks and have dedications added to the mei. So it fits the pattern of a particular Japanese faker that is periodically putting these out.

[Stephen]

Thanks...any comments on the cut of the mei? Looks close to me but then im blind in one eye and cant see out the other.

[16k]

@Stephen: I think the mei is close enough to fool anyone. My greatest suspicion, at first sight, were the togishi marks. Never seen them on Mantetsu I think, unless, of course, it’s been polished after the war.

 

@Bruce: strangely enough, I don’t think it’s a Komonjo blade. I often look at them (I, for one, believe they are truly Japanese, but  iaito with Gimei signatures, the polish being a second class polish) and they don’t show those polisher’s marks. I believe this blade is a fake Mantetsu but a real Japanese mumei blade on which a fake mei was engraved because Mantetsu are getting more and more popular. To be honest, if the price stays low as it is now, it could be a nice package.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Thanks...any comments on the cut of the mei? Looks close to me but then im blind in one eye and cant see out the other.

The Mei is well done, but well done by the same hand as all these other modern Gimei.

[Bruce Pennington]

The mei is good enough on all 4 of our Possible Fakes, that if there were no other reason to suspect them, they would be considered legit. In fact, they are so good, and the serial numbers are using the correct kanji for the year-group, that I cannot 100% classify them as fake. But they are "under suspicion."

 

JP, actually both of the Komonjo blades I have photos of, have the same polisher's marking:

 

[16k]

And the same patina too it seems. Then, I should venture a guess that the swords Komonjo sells as gendai swords aren’t made by the same people making the fake Mantetsu. Two different providers, same fake results.

[Stephen]

Nicely done mates, why NMB is invaluable.

[Stephen]

Someone liked it. Sold just over 2K!

[PNSSHOGUN]

A fool and his money are soon parted.....

[Bruce Pennington]

That's actually quite low for the Japanese sites.