Mjordan8691 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Posted February 9, 2020 So i grew up with this sword. Even named it kotetsu which apparently means iron.... Any way can some help translate this, I think it's a 45' but there's a small 38 on the spine of the tang and a long signature. Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Posted February 9, 2020 More images for clarity Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Posted February 9, 2020 BTW this not for commercial use, just closure Quote
Ray Singer Posted February 9, 2020 Report Posted February 9, 2020 To start, the date is the 4th month of 1944. Quote
Ray Singer Posted February 9, 2020 Report Posted February 9, 2020 Limited to viewing on my phone for a few hours, but the mei may end with Yoshisada + KAO. Quote
SteveM Posted February 9, 2020 Report Posted February 9, 2020 建依別山囗善貞（花押） Tateyoriwake Yama(?) Yoshisada + kaō Tateyoriwake is an unusual name, originating in Japanese mythology, and appearing on at least one other sword posted to this site http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/30320-help-translating-gendaito/ making me think it is a name used by a specific group or school of smiths. Yama-something Yoshisada would be the specific name of the swordsmith (or his art name). I can't make out the kanji after Yama. 4 Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Posted February 10, 2020 I'll see if I can get a better pic later. Thanks though, that helps alot Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted February 10, 2020 Report Posted February 10, 2020 Please follow Brian's rules, & sign all of your posts with your first name, so we know how to address you. Adding it in your Profile signature is the easiest. Welcome to the forum. 1 Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Posted February 10, 2020 Could it be ritsumeikan ? Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Posted February 10, 2020 Sorry on mobile gimme a sec Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Posted February 10, 2020 建依別山囗善貞（花押） Tateyoriwake Yama(?) Yoshisada + kaō Tateyoriwake is an unusual name, originating in Japanese mythology, and appearing on at least one other sword posted to this site http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/30320-help-translating-gendaito/ making me think it is a name used by a specific group or school of smiths. Yama-something Yoshisada would be the specific name of the swordsmith (or his art name). I can't make out the kanji after Yama. Sit down and broke out the old elbow grease, did some image editing, hope this helps. Quote
k morita Posted February 11, 2020 Report Posted February 11, 2020 Hi,The mei is 建依別山村善貞," Tateyoriwake,Yamamura(family name) Yoshisada " . 1 Quote
Ray Singer Posted February 11, 2020 Report Posted February 11, 2020 Matt, did you clean the nakago? I hope not, as that is extremely destructive to the natural aging of the nakago (just as you would not buff an antique coin). Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Posted February 11, 2020 I understand your concern but the blade has been through the development of a child since age 12 who had 4 older brothers and few friends. Also if it helps ease your pain. I'm hand sharpening it to return the blade to it's convex edge as a prior owner used a grinding wheel before me. Also after edging I'll polish the blade, clean it thoroughly then allow the blade to soak in oil soaked clothes for a few days to saturate the steel and preserve the finish. It's long past it's prime, when I got it it was rusty and nothing but blade and nakano and sheath. Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Posted February 11, 2020 I just want to know it's history so I can give it the respect it deserves, which truly it deserves much much much more. In a wierd way it was my childhood friend. Quote
george trotter Posted February 11, 2020 Report Posted February 11, 2020 I know the blade is ruined, but you might like to have some info on the smith. He was an army swordsmith (star stamp) and is from Kochi prefecture, Tosa City. He was born in Meiji 33 (3 April 1900) and was still making swords in 1977. Here is a page from the "Gendai Toko Meikan" by ONO 1971 p.110. Regards, 3 Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Posted February 11, 2020 I know the blade is ruined, but you might like to have some info on the smith. He was an army swordsmith (star stamp) and is from Kochi prefecture, Tosa City. He was born in Meiji 33 (3 April 1900) and was still making swords in 1977. Here is a page from the "Gendai Toko Meikan" by ONO 1971 p.110. Regards, Thank you very much. I'm excited to learn this. There is an inscription on the other side as well. If it's not to much, when I can I'll clear it up some and get a good pic. I know you guys probably cringe at the mention of that but I'm just curious. The swords got a lot of sentimental value to it and that's what lead me hear to begin with searching for translations. I can't tell how long I've been digging around to be hear lol. Thanks again too, it really means a lot to mean. Quote
Brian Posted February 11, 2020 Report Posted February 11, 2020 It's not about cringing, it is about the fact that cleaning a nakago is a strict NO. Not something frowned upon, or bad manners, it is a NO, and you basically wave goodbye to half your value immediately.And you may not care about that, but you are only looking after it for future generations and they may care. This one one of the prime rules of Japanese swords. That...and NEVER polish a Japanese sword yourself.Legally, you can do what you like with it. But expect the same backlash you would get on an art forum when you say you are using your oil paints to touch up your old Monet painting.Just fyi I guess.. 6 Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Posted February 11, 2020 It's not about cringing, it is about the fact that cleaning a nakago is a strict NO. Not something frowned upon, or bad manners, it is a NO, and you basically wave goodbye to half your value immediately. And you may not care about that, but you are only looking after it for future generations and they may care. This one one of the prime rules of Japanese swords. That...and NEVER polish a Japanese sword yourself. Legally, you can do what you like with it. But expect the same backlash you would get on an art forum when you say you are using your oil paints to touch up your old Monet painting. Just fyi I guess.. I understand that from a collectors view point, I'm actually learning a lot and I don't want you guys to think I'm dismissing these points. Any other sword I get later I'll certainly practice better care. Actually if there's somewhere you can direct me for dos and donuts that's be appreciated Quote
Ray Singer Posted February 11, 2020 Report Posted February 11, 2020 Everything you have described and done, including 'hand sharpening', 'edging' and unnecessarily cleaning the nakago to remove patina on an already readable mei is a 'don't'. You cannot make the decision whether a sword is 'past its prime' on your own. Judgements about restorability need to come from a professionally trained togishi. http://www.nbthk-ab.org/swordcare.pdf 2 Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Posted February 11, 2020 This is a nice article thanks. Quote
Mjordan8691 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Posted February 11, 2020 So out of curiosity, how much does a togishi cost to have examine your sword what are typical shipping rates? Quote
Ray Singer Posted February 11, 2020 Report Posted February 11, 2020 At a starting point, reach out to Robert Benson via his website. http://togishi.com Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 14, 2022 Report Posted October 14, 2022 @Mjordan8691 - any chance of getting a shot of that "38" on the nakago mune? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.