Grass script mei on tsuba

[Surfson]

Just bought a really interesting tsuba and can't read the mei.  I was crazy about the design and just dove in, despite the lack of papers.  Any help would be appreciated.  Cheers, Bob

[Bazza]

Hmmmmm, too busy to do a book dive, but that "scribble" style looks like a Choshu tsuba mei I have...

 

Love the tsuba.

 

BaZZa.

[SteveM]

The left side looks to me like 横谷宗政（花押）Yokoya Sōsei (kao).

I can't get the right side. 

[Surfson]

Thanks Steve!  Anybody able to do the right side?  

[Peter Bleed]

terrific guard!

P

[Robert Mormile]

Robert

The right-hand inscription seems to be:

 

萬治二年十月

Man-En Ni Nen Jyu Gatsu  (October of 1660)

 

That is kanji 1251 and 275 in this kuzushi-jisho I am using.

 

Thanks for posting the photos.

Robert

[Ted Tenold]

What a charming and beautiful guard.  The reflection in the stream on the ura, from the moon shown on the omote.  Excellent touch.  

[Surfson]

Thanks Robert!   I agree Ted, it is very subtle and skillful on the soft metal and very powerful on the iron rim.  I can't wait to have it in hand.  

[Surfson]

You guys are fabulous.  What a terrific resource is NMB!   Now I have to see if I can find this guy in any of the books I have.....

[Fuuten]

Great buy even without papers, clearly not a fake. The moon in the river and the whole design is very nice.

[Surfson]

Thanks Axel, are you basing your opinion on study of the mei?   if so, have you found examples?  I'm crazy about the mokume mimi (which is 6 mm - the whole tsuba is 8.4cm and weighs 140g I think).  Cheers, bob

[SteveM]

I'm not 100% sure of 政, mind you. The big name would be Yokoya Sōmin (宗珉), but to me the final kanji before the kaō doesn't look much like 珉. It does vaguely resemble 政, and there was a 横谷宗政 who signed that way with a kaō, so I offer that as a plausible candidate.

[Fuuten]

Thanks Axel, are you basing your opinion on study of the mei?   if so, have you found examples?  I'm crazy about the mokume mimi (which is 6 mm - the whole tsuba is 8.4cm and weighs 140g I think).  Cheers, bob

No, just based on the design, (and because there seem to be plenty of people who post here with obvious fakes. If the mei is gimei the work is still good (to me).

[Ken-Hawaii]

How prevalent are mixed-metal tsuba? Can't recall seeing any others.

[Surfson]

Thanks Steve.  Did that one work at the stated time?  Axel, that was sort of my reasoning as well.  Ken, I assume you mean mix of iron and soft metal.  Hard to answer since so many iron tsuba have soft metal inlay.  Setting that aside, and dealing with ones like this one having soft metal internal structure and an iron mimi, I think that they are not that common.  As it turns out, I have another one that there is a thread on here:

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29633-umetada-influence/

[SteveM]

Hello Robert - this is where Wakayama lets me down. Sōsei (宗政) is listed as having been active "mid-Edo", but Wakayama doesn't list specific birth dates (or pronunciation for that matter, so I am guessing at Sōsei as it is consistent with other Yokoya artists's names). As I say I offer it with some hesitation as the artist seems to be obscure, and I have no other examples to go by. 

 

I am still on the fence as to the inscription on the right side. Robert Mormile's suggestion has made me search on a number of things trying to cast some light on the possibility of the date given (and referencing that date with the terse and often cryptic Wakayama entries). What I can say is:

 

If the first kanji is 萬, the date must be either 

 

萬治 Manji (1658 -1661)  or

萬延 Man'en (1860 - 1861)

 

To me the second kanji doesn't look like either 治 or 延, so I have some doubts already. The first kanji vaguely looks like 萬, but to me it looks even closer to the grass script version of 蔓, which is also pronounced "man", but it is a kanji that doesn't get much use except in specialized contexts. Anyway, you can see that by this time I've already got one foot in the weeds. Wakayama says Sōsei was an apprentice of Sōyo (宗與), however there were at least three generations of Sōyo, two at the beginning of Edo, and one at the end. So as a plausible date, Manji (万治) is compatible with an apprenticeship to the first Sōyo, but I take a step farther into the weeds here because I'm not convinced Sōsei is who I should be looking for in the first place, and, as I said before I don't like the looks of Manji, so I feel this is a dead-end. Man'en is so short of an era, that it ends in February of Man'en 2. Then the era name changes to Bunkyū. So an October date of Man'en 2 is technically invalid. I'm willing to entertain some wiggle room on the date, but to me the final two kanji don't look like October (十月) and overall its incompatible with a "mid-Edo" artist - either Sōsei or Sōmin, so the doubts start piling up. 

 

Maybe try sending to Markus. Or, maybe Moriyama-san or Morita-san can weigh in. 

[Surfson]

You are amazing Steve.  I feel guilty that you are spending so much time in the weeds....reminiscent of the 60s!  Hopefully Moriyama san or Morita san will weigh in, yes!  Cheers, Bob

[Robert Mormile]

Steve, Robert,

 

When I first saw this post, I thought to myself, wow, what a lovely 19^th Century tsuba.  I immediately took out some dictionaries and started to investigate the script.  I have not looked at what Steve has translated.  Regarding the problematic right-hand inscription, as the first character is a match for the kuzushi of Man (萬) I was looking for some 19^th century date with “kusa-kanmuri”  and alas, there was ‘en (延)  however, when cross-referenced with a kuzushi version, it is indeed NOT represented in this syllabary.  I therefore, discounted 萬延 Man'en (1860 - 1861)

 

 

Regarding the Nen, Jyu and Gatsu characters, please see the reference exhibits provided here.  They are a perfect match.  Therefore, this has to be a date. 

 

I am not saying what this tsuba is only what the right-hand inscription states.  It could be Manji or Manen (with some artistic interpretation) but it is most certainly a date.  The tsuba may be an utsushi of an earlier work paying due homage.

 

Many Thanks,

Robert

[k morita]

Hi,

 

R line says:
慶應二年十月　(The10th month of the 2nd year of Keio),(10th month of 1866).

[Nobody]

This is my guess.

If the first two charactes on the right represent an era, it may be Keio (慶應, 1865-1868).

 

[Surfson]

This thread continues to amaze me.  Robert, you are absolutely correct that it is a date.  What's more, it appears that Morita San and Moriyama San independently made the same conclusion, of October 26th, 1866, or Keio.  Heartfelt thanks to you all.  That information should help narrow it down as to the Yokoya man that made it, I hope, and any thoughts speculations or conclusions are more than welcome.