Mokko Gata Iron Tsuba

[Blazeaglory]

Hello all. I have a question in regards to this Tsuba

 

I know its not the nicest or anything but I've always liked rough iron Tsuba's for some reason, especially this Mokko Gata shape. The question is in regards to the Crane emblem glued to this tsuba. It looks like modern super glue because I can see it coming out the sides a bit. I would like to remove it to try and restore the original integrity of this one.

 

I mean it doesn't look that bad but it just rubs me the wrong way. When I received it in the mail form Japan there was actually a long white hair that had been glued under the Crane as well. lol

 

I dont know how well you can see the glue but its there. Its fairly large at 65.80mm wide and thin, which I like

 

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Dwain,

the TSUBA  (no plural form in Japanese nouns) looks o.k. but the (modern mass produced) crane is indeed quite ugly.

Heating up the TSUBA to ca. 150°C (certainly not above 180°C)  in a kitchen stove might be enough to loosen the glue without affecting the TSUBA.   

[Blazeaglory]

Dwain,

 

the TSUBA (no plural form in Japanese nouns) looks o.k. but the (modern mass produced) crane is indeed quite ugly.

 

Heating up the TSUBA to ca. 150°C (certainly not above 180°C) in a kitchen stove might be enough to loosen the glue without affecting the TSUBA.

Thank you! What I'm afraid of tho is maybe the crane was added because of a blemish? Used as cover up. But really, what's worse? This ugly arsed crane or a little blemish?

 

Also, thanks for letting me know about how to spell Tsuba. Literally I hesitated to put the "s" on the end because it didn't sound right. Going forward I'll make sure to remember this!

 

Now I have to go back and edit allot of posts because of my ocd haha

 

Anyways, thanks again

[johnnyi]

Hi Dwain. I've bought several of these kind of things on ebay over the years, mostly fine hammered Shoami school on which someone had thought embellishment with a gaudy dove or crane or similar would somehow boost the value. Never have I encountered a flaw after basically "snapping off" the offending brass with a pointed stick of wood. In my cases it was a cheap glue that adhered the embellishments; something that easily chipped off the iron too  with little effort. Although yours might be different, maybe it would be worthwhile  to apply a little pressure from the side and see if yours snap off...before playijng with heat and a chance of causing glues to absorb into the iron tighter?   Good luck

 

 

John

[ROKUJURO]

John,

iron is not spongy....

[Ford Hallam]

It seems to me that there's a 'lip' around the crane. This might simply be the outline of a cavity into which the decoration is set or glued but it might also be that the decoration is partially inlaid.

 

More worryingly though is the likelihood that the plate is a cast copy. That nakago-ana is simply not right at all. There's no evidence of it ever having been mounted, the mune end seems still clogged up and unfinished after casting, and the ha end is completely unconvincing in its roundness.

[johnnyi]

Jean, Ford has kind of made saving the tsuba a non-issue with his thoughtful observations. As far as porosity is concerned though, of course iron isn't spongy,  and "absorbed" was the wrong word for me to use perhaps so thankyou for correcting me. . Variations is surface, as well as chance of forging (surface lamination) fissures, indents, etc., absorbing melted mess was what I was referring to.    

 

John

[Steves87]

Hi Dwain, was Tsuba purchased from seller yumi3go55 by any chance?

[Blazeaglory]

It seems to me that there's a 'lip' around the crane. This might simply be the outline of a cavity into which the decoration is set or glued but it might also be that the decoration is partially inlaid.

 

More worryingly though is the likelihood that the plate is a cast copy. That nakago-ana is simply not right at all. There's no evidence of it ever having been mounted, the mune end seems still clogged up and unfinished after casting, and the ha end is completely unconvincing in its roundness.

 

You know I was thinking that myself the other day. Luckily I didn't pay much for it. Im still 50/50 on its authenticity but its funny you mentioned that because I was fearing the same thing

 

The "lip" you see is actually the glue running out and dried. In person you can see it much better.

[Blazeaglory]

Hi Dwain, was Tsuba purchased from seller yumi3go55 by any chance?

 

Possibly, that name sounds very familiar. Is that bad? lol

[Steves87]

not sure, I know that seller seems to sell a lot of Tsuba like that (glued decorations) just wondering if it was bought through them.

[Blazeaglory]

not sure, I know that seller seems to sell a lot of Tsuba like that (glued decorations) just wondering if it was bought through them.

I checked my history going back 3 years and found that it was that same seller.

 

I also checked their recent listings and most their Tsuba look similar. They also had some old complaints about authenticity but nothing recently.

 

I paid 15$ for it in hopes of getting rid of the Crane.

[Steves87]

Some Tsuba from this seller are ok, especially when you consider the cost they are purchased for.

Aside from the glued decorated Tsuba that they sell, the other issue I see from this seller is that they seem to lacquer or coat them with something. Judging by your pictures I would say your Tsuba is also coated. Heating the Tsuba could cause this coating to melt or stain?

I recently bought from this seller and although it too was coated, it was (very) cheap and it filled the 'example gap' in my collection, until I can trade up to a better example.

[Blazeaglory]

What kind of coating do you think it could be?

 

In the hand it looks and feels like other iron tsuba I've held and own. There doesn't seem to be any coating. I think my camera just whitewash images and makes them appear shiny or wet at times.

 

I'll check tho to make sure before I try heating, so thank you for the heads up!

[Ken-Hawaii]

I've seen several tsuba like that, with what appears to be a coating, but I've never figured out what I was seeing, once I had them in hand.

[Steves87]

If I had to take a stab at it, my guess would be a very thin nail polish? 'watered' down, but still enough to dry very hard

[Guido]

Bean-spilling-time  : a 1:1 mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. Takes forever to dry, but darkens (and arrests) the rust, but makes the surface a little shiny. But please don't rush to make that magic formula yourself, once it's applied, it stays, at least for a couple of decades; AFAIK, there's no process to reverse the application.

[Curran]

Bean-spilling-time  : a 1:1 mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. Takes forever to dry, but darkens (and arrests) the rust, but makes the surface a little shiny. But please don't rush to make that magic formula yourself, once it's applied, it stays, at least for a couple of decades; AFAIK, there's no process to reverse the application.

This might be the formula that the Yahoo!Japan seller "mcwcrown" [or something like that] uses on his tsuba? They all have some weird sort of funk wax shellack on them.

I bought one a decade or more ago and could never figure out what that funk was on his.

 

I've used a lot of linseed oil in oil painting, but never thought to boil it.  Yes, with oil painting it does extend the dry time.

I would think linseed oil makes quite the icky ink.

[Ford Hallam]

I paid 15$ for it in hopes of getting rid of the Crane.

 

 

15$  !!!!    no no no, don't ever do that again, or if you really must, to satisfy some unmentionable lust, don't drag the genteel members of this august forum into a tawdry discussion of the imaginary merits of your shameful weaknesses. Six Hail Marys, half a dozen 'Our Fathers' and a severe spanking would be my proscription. 

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

Bean-spilling-time  : a 1:1 mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits.

That makes sense. I can see, & occasionally feel, that something is on the surface, but other than knowing it's there, it doesn't really make any change.

[Blazeaglory]

15$ !!!! no no no, don't ever do that again, or if you really must, to satisfy some unmentionable lust, don't drag the genteel members of this august forum into a tawdry discussion of the imaginary merits of your shameful weaknesses. Six Hail Marys, half a dozen 'Our Fathers' and a severe spanking would be my proscription.

Haha to the cornfield with ya!

[Pete Klein]

I wonder how many people here recognize that 'Twilight Zone' prompt?

[Blazeaglory]

I wonder how many people here recognize that 'Twilight Zone' prompt?

Thank you! I was waiting for someone to finally get it!