Tokugawa Tanto new IMAGES

[deeceeg]

Any help would be grand.....

OK 1) one side is very shiny and worn.(inside when worn

2) Outside is brown aged look

3) really nice Hamon

4)no signature on blade  but there is on the Wood..under the copper/handle 

The cord is really quite old but really original I would say

This was a bring back from J Force in 1946 NZ .Blade is incredibly sharp.

I took the platelets of the handle off and I was surprised to find a faded signature on the wood.

Also the tang has 2 holes 

Any help would be great.

 

Hi there …...my name is Don and Im from New Zealand 

This was brought back in 1946 by a New Zealand Soldier 

Thankyou.

Apologies I forgot to add my name …….I was in a rush when posting this 

merivalefinearts@xtra.co.nz

[Grey Doffin]

Hi, name please,

I believe this is a late 19th century or later tourist piece.  The hamon looks to be cosmetic, made by abrading the surface rather than by quenching (note that the blade surface above the hamon is whiter that the yakiba (tempered area), the opposite of what is usually seen).

But maybe I'm wrong; let's see what others have to say.

Grey

[ROKUJURO]

deeceeg,

please sign all posts at least with your first name plus an initial as is requested here. 

Your TANTO seems to be a very late item (MEIJI or later) made for tourists. They have been made in numbers, so you find them being offered quite often. 

Photos of the NAKAGO (tang) might reveal if it is possubly an older blade. Signatures on the wood of the TSUKA (handle) are often just the names of the craftsmen who worked on this item.

[16k]

I also think it is a tourist object. At least the blade. As for the mounting, I’m not one hundred percent sure as I have a book showcasing the collection of a Swiss museum (can’t remember which) that shows a Daisho in similar koshirae. Late mountings though.

[Rich S]

IF (?) memory serves (doubtful); back in ancient times I asked about a wak I had in same type mounts on Chris Bowen's email sword list.

I think someone replied it was a local/regional administrators sword badge of office, not a tourist sword. All this may be the fault of an old man's lose of brain cells.

Rich

[Curran]

Late 19th century tourist export.

These are surprisingly common.

 

Edit:   I just say Rich S.'s post coming in right before mine. I have a problem with the notion of them as badges, because why not use a real blade of a lower (Seki) grade?

Also, these would be awful easy for criminal elements of the time to counterfeit.

[Rich S]

Curran

 

You may well be correct, but all blades that I've seen in this type mounts have been low grade poor blades(some old/some newer)

Rich

[Curran]

 all blades that I've seen in this type mounts have been low grade poor blades(some old/some newer)

 

Agreed

[Rivkin]

Well, I'll do a completely contratian and possibly ignorant opinion.

Such metallic koshirae with Tokugawa's mon are considered in some circles to be Ainu type. There are Edo period examples which are quite expensive and very rare, there is one in TNM.

Quite a few were made during Meiji and could be/are touristy... But they are not terribly common (i.e. you see one or two for sale per year) and do cost money. The scrimshaw koshirae is completely touristy and non-traditional (unlike this one), and yet you similarly see them maybe twice a year and they do cost money.

 

There is a type of Ainu koshirae made of carved wood, which is made in Hokkaido even today and is very cheap.

 

Kirill R.

[SAS]

I think the hamon is real, but also agree with the rest of the comments, that it is a late piece produced for export.

[deeceeg]

 

Hi This is the nakaga that I perhaps should have shown first.

Regards Don

[SAS]

Older blade into newer koshirae perhaps?

[uwe]

Agree with Steve!

Nakago looks well made....two mekugi-ana seemingly supporting this assumption.

[Surfson]

I have one of those too.   It has an old Soshu blade in it.   I do agree that they are not particularly valuable and are usually late.  

[Geraint]

Dear Don.

 

The first image in your latest post shows what looks like higaki yasurime and with the hamon this suggest a Mino den tanto.  The mounts are pressed brass and are a fairly common late Edo tourist rig.  Most of the time the blades found in these mounts are of no consequence but sometimes something slips through.  Go carefully, anyone near you who could take a look for you?

 

All the best.

[Surfson]

I noticed that too Geraint, and usually the ones with that Mino yasurime are koto.

[Guest]

Just a quick note regarding the Tokugawa mainline Kamon, it is different to the sort of Kamon we encounter in the tourist pieces.

 

This is the Tokugawa AOI Kamon 

 

See how straight the lines separating the leaves are, like a letter Y, and also the base where the stem exits the main circle at 90 degrees.

 

No look at the curves and angles on Don's Koshirae  Kamon, and you'll see the differences.

 

A bit like quickly reading POLITE NOTICE as POLICE NOTICE 

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Surely that is because the mounts are low quality rubbish ! It must be intended to be a Tokugawa mon even if they didn't get the details right . The tourists would never know the difference anyway.

Ian brooks

[Guest]

Good morning Ian, that's a good point, but I wonder how powerful the extended Tokugawa family were back in early Meiji?

[Ken-Hawaii]

Powerful? After 1868 or so, did that matter? But it's also unlikely that anyone would deliberately mock them. Does the OP have something that says it's a Tokugawa mon?

[Jacques]

Hum, nakago is not that badly done, which is generally a feature of tourists items, and it seems it remains higaki yasurime it would be helpful seeing it without habaki and measurements are needed.

[Guest]

I've a vague recollection of a Court case in the 1970's, where the Tokugawa mainline Kamon was  being used by a manufacturer.