Visiting Aoi Japan - First Nihonto Ever

[Chris H]

I find this sort of discussion interesting. I'm relatively new to nihonto, and have been finding swords for martial arts, but I've bought from four or five different sources over the past year that mostly sell art swords. I have absolutely noticed some particulars when it comes to what one dealer might mention versus another, and have had a few unmentioned flaws on the swords I've bought.

 

For example, one had a kitae-ware along the mune, but it was so well hidden that I didn't catch it for weeks, since it's iori mune, and the flaw was on the raised portion. The same had a little pitting in the shinogi-ji. Neither of these things was mentioned, and I couldn't spot them in the photos, even after receiving the sword, but I'd classify both flaws as minor, and didn't feel the need to say anything to the dealer.

 

Another, a wakizashi from one those e-auction dealers, came smelling strongly of rust, with a big glob of something (maybe gummy adhesive stuff) near the kissaki, along with some fresh, shallow rust in the monouchi area. Again the photos showed none of the rust, and the koshirae looked cleaner/less beat up in the photos provided. 

 

My latest purchase still has some very faint, only-visible-at-a-certain-angle cutting scratches in the monouchi area, but it was clearly marked for iai/tameshigiri, so I wouldn't consider this a flaw. Just something unmentioned and not picked up in the photos provided.

 

With all of that said, my experience in the sub-400k market has taught me what to expect for "junk" swords. Almost everything I've bought so far has been direct from Japanese dealers, all online. In all cases where koshirae was included (all but like two), at best, it was crappy but usable (for martial arts), and at worst basically falling apart. All of it is paneled samegawa, all but one were plain black saya, possibly with nicks and chunks missing from bad resheathing, definitely with some scratches and dents.

 

The tosugu have been a mixed bag as well. On one, I looked at them and quickly found a site that sold the exact models. Another's fuchi and kashira felt like plastic (very, very thin). The ito is mostly fine, with all but one being silk. The mekugi situation has been a little...strange, though. One had a tapered metal (soft with a lot of dents) pin, with the hole entirely too large on the other side. One had some sort of black...plastic or something put in place of bamboo, and the others range from totally acceptable mekugi to "that's going to break if I don't replace it."

 

Ah, and one still had a price tag (I'm assuming from a sword show) on its bag for like 80k JPY, when it was sold for like 260-280k. To be fair, I don't know what shape it was in before the dealer got it. They very well could have had it polished, since it was exceptionally sharp, and in a very new-looking polish. There's also a chance that the bag was from a different sword, so I can't say it bugs me.

 

At any rate, someone far pickier or caught up on the principle of the matter might deem any number of these things unacceptable, but for my criteria, and the fact that I'm seeking out swords collectors wouldn't want, they're fine. I will also add that, by getting experience with (relatively) cheap nihonto, I am able to learn from them in a way that I believe would give me a good head start if I did decide to start collecting art swords.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Welcome to a fellow iaidoka, Chris. You obviously have some experience in buying blades, albeit for iai & tameshigiri. You might catch a little flak, because NMB is specifically for the preservation of Nihonto, but since we haven't seen your blades. there's not much to say. Personally, I hope you've been buying shinken, rather than anything traditionally made.

 

Welcome to the forum.

[1kinko]

Just to shift the original question about AOI a little, has anyone here had experience with the auction, where it seems no one else was interested and then got outbid minutes before the auction closed?  This has happened to me several times.  It seems to me that there is a way to have your computer do the bidding at the last moment and avoid having to bid and outbid.  How does one compete? Thanks in advance.

[Gakusee]

I have had negative experiences with Aoi’s online auctions:

- they have let the auction run beyond the stipulated time

- last minute “automatic” increases (I don’t know if there was shill bidding? No way to know)

- when I telephoned and complained that the auction seemed to overrun and my computer did not cope with that, they said if I could buy the item right away at the specified price at which the auction closed that I could have it. But the payment had to be in one go (I could not use a credit card)

- I would not participate in auctions there but others seems to have done it successfully.

[Surfson]

Just speculating here, but Yahoo Japan has a process in which a 8 minute clock is started whenever somebody makes a new bid.  In this system, there is no race against the clock or timing necessary, but it can seem like you're winning and then it gets pushed away from you just before it ends.  When one of the final two bidders is exhausted, the auction ends.  When swords fail to be bought in the auction, they go to the regular Aoi listings and you can look for them there.  if there was some shill bidding, and the shill bidder won, you might see them show up.  I don't know whether this happens or not, but have not heard of it happening with Aoi.  I have bought several great swords from them and always been happy with them.  

[Rivkin]

Yes, that's Japanese way to do online auction.

The bidding is over when beyond the given time, there are no bids for x minutes.

The seller can withdraw the listing at absolutely any time.

 

Used to make me upset as well.

 

Kirill R.

[PietroParis]

In fact, I've seen examples of this "sliding deadline" even in online sales from French auction houses, and I am told that Catawiki works the same way. It makes sense to me, I'm not a fan of eBay-style snipe bidding. It is also closer to the way regular brick-and-mortar auctions work.

[BenVK]

Although it's disappointing to hear it, there's nothing unique about dishonest dealers and corruption within the Japanese sword market. It goes on in all areas of collecting from baseball cards to classic cars. Neither is it a surprise to hear that the whistle blowers often become the target of ridicule. That's what happens when you attempt to derail the gravy train. It's also true that some collectors are happy to live in blissful ignorance, sometimes for decades and don't take kindly to members of internet forums telling them that their prized possessions are not what they thought they were. That's another reason why most dealers hate forums, especially if they made the mistake of offering a lifetime guarantee! 

So I understand that it can be a thankless and tiring task trying to help others but there are occasions where some good comes out of it. 

In other words, don't let the b'stards grind you down! 

[sbf]

In the US, the popular online auction site Gunbroker (like ebay except it’s for firearms and accessories) has a “15 minute rule”. All auctions have an ending time, but that time is extended 15 minutes every time there is a bid at the end of the auction. I once battled another bidder for 1 1/2 hours after the original closing time of the auction. In the end he wanted the item more than I did.

 

Steve