Opinions on a sword blade and nakago

[Dean1981]

  On 1/15/2020 at 11:27 PM, ROKUJURO said:

We have a saying in Germany that would fit here: PAPER IS PATIENT. As long as this is not a SHINSA ORIGAMI it it just an opinion of a seller.

 

What is indeed interesting in this blade is the rather nicely chiselled TACHI MEI which is consistent with HIZEN. On the other hand if it has no HADA it is way too expensive in my opinion. But I am not a military guy so I may be wrong.

 

Closer pics of the blade will show if the hada is there or not.

 

Thanks for the input

[vajo]

  On 1/15/2020 at 11:27 PM, ROKUJURO said:

We have a saying in Germany that would fit here: PAPER IS PATIENT. As long as this is not a SHINSA ORIGAMI it it just an opinion of a seller.

 

What is indeed interesting in this blade is the rather nicely chiselled TACHI MEI which is consistent with HIZEN. On the other hand if it has no HADA it is way too expensive in my opinion. But I am not a military guy so I may be wrong.   

 

Its a nice package and a nice sword. Most gendaito are made in dense masame or mokume hada. The pictures are not close enough to see the hada. You can't say there is no Hada.

[djcollection]

Need more pictures to see clear hada

[ROKUJURO]

Chris,

I wrote  "if it has no HADA" which means 'in case it has no HADA'. Better photos might help to make it visible, but I am not so sure that the 'polish' is a traditional one. To me, it is looking more as if someone tried to enhance the HAMON without using appropriate stones. But that may well be the effect of the images.

[Dean1981]

  On 1/16/2020 at 11:07 AM, ROKUJURO said:

Chris,

 

I wrote "if it has no HADA" which means 'in case it has no HADA'. Better photos might help to make it visible, but I am not so sure that the 'polish' is a traditional one. To me, it is looking more as if someone tried to enhance the HAMON without using appropriate stones. But that may well be the effect of the images.

I’m asking for better pics today, hopefully I can update you all.

With regards to the polish, I don’t think it’s owner would have gone for it had it been bad. The photos are low resolution with lots of light , so is difficult to make any judgement on polish in my opinion.

 

- D

[16k]

  On 1/16/2020 at 11:07 AM, ROKUJURO said:

Chris,

 

I wrote  "if it has no HADA" which means 'in case it has no HADA'. Better photos might help to make it visible, but I am not so sure that the 'polish' is a traditional one. To me, it is looking more as if someone tried to enhance the HAMON without using appropriate stones. But that may well be the effect of the images.

Actually, acid enhanced hamon was an option I had envisionned when I first saw the pics.

[Dean1981]

  On 1/16/2020 at 11:34 AM, 16k said:

Actually, acid enhanced hamon was an option I had envisionned when I first saw the pics.

It arrives tomorrow so all will be seen and told

[Dean1981]

Here it is

[Dean1981]

Shots of the blade with all the tiny nioi crystals In it ,

[Dean1981]

Let me know if these pics are good enough

[SAS]

It certainly has hada!

[Dean1981]

  On 1/17/2020 at 9:28 PM, SAS said:

It certainly has hada!

Well that’s good to know Thankyou

[Dean1981]

I would like to add it’s not had a polish and shows actual use but not been abused.

 

- Dean

[PNSSHOGUN]

Dean that is a very lovely sword, I still believe this is a semi traditionally forged blade tempered in oil. It explains why there is Hada and an otherwise high quality of finish but retains the formation of dark peaks in the hamon, synonymous with oil tempering. Any collector would be happy with this sword in their hands with such nice mounts and good quality blade.

[Austus]

Great specimen, Dean; beautiful sword.  You will never be sorry you bought it.   Enjoy!

[Brian]

Showato. Doesn't excite me as much as the rest here. It's.....ok.

[SAS]

Nagayama states that a shinshinto trait was dark spots along the peaks of the hamon; how was this achieved, and how will you differentiate that with oil quenched showato?

[Dean1981]

Thankyou all for your input

So can I ask -

 

As some believe it to be oil quenched does this mean the sword was made the traditional way by folding the steel ?

 

Oil quenched makes a harder better blade is this correct ?

 

To sum it up -

 

Oil quenched sword made the traditional way, of a superior quality from a well known and respected sword-smith who was operating and making swords during WW2 for officers and NCO’s etc

Nice mounts and saya with its original Jungle leather cover

 

Just want to get this right, please excuse my asking of probably very simple questions, it’s all a learning curve for me.

 

Thankyou

 

Dean

[Brian]

Oil quenching is less risky. It is done not because it is better, but because there is less risk of cracking and having to throw away the sword. That is why wartime swords were oil quenched. You don't get the same activities or art in the steel. The blades were usually still forged and folded, just not using tamahagane or better steel.

[Dean1981]

  On 1/18/2020 at 8:38 AM, Brian said:

Oil quenching is less risky. It is done not because it is better, but because there is less risk of cracking and having to throw away the sword. That is why wartime swords were oil quenched. You don't get the same activities or art in the steel. The blades were usually still forged and folded, just not using tamahagane or better steel.

Thanks Brian

That explains a lot and I appreciate your response

 

- Dean

[PNSSHOGUN]

Steve, can't say I've ever seen a Shin Shinto sword with the sort of dark spots you see on Showato, if you have an example it would be most intriguing. In any case this type of Showato is documented and there are certainly other examples of these "Hantenren" swords.

 

Dean, that just about sums it up, all you could do to improve it is add an original tassel. You will find out a great deal about Japanese military swords here just by looking over old topics or posts.

[Dean1981]

  On 1/18/2020 at 9:19 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

Steve, can't say I've ever seen a Shin Shinto sword with the sort of dark spots you see on Showato, if you have an example it would be most intriguing. In any case this type of Showato is documented and there are certainly other examples of these "Hantenren" swords.

 

Dean, that just about sums it up, all you could do to improve it is add an original tassel. You will find out a great deal about Japanese military swords here just by looking over old topics or posts.

Thank you

 

Slowly going through the the threads and sub threads

 

- Dean

[djcollection]

 

 

 

Han-tanren-to?

 

[SAS]

I have no experience or expertise on the dark spots on shinshinto, just that Nagayama mentions it in Connoisseur's.

[Bruce Pennington]

Dean,

Most collectors call the saya a "combat saya." It's much lighter than the metal "formal" saya, and can take more knocking around.

[16k]

  On 1/19/2020 at 11:30 AM, SAS said:

I have no experience or expertise on the dark spots on shinshinto, just that Nagayama mentions it in Connoisseur's.

 

I believe this may what he means (photo by Ed Marshall). If so, it’s VERY different from oil quenching spots

[Dave R]

  On 1/19/2020 at 11:50 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Dean,

Most collectors call the saya a "combat saya." It's much lighter than the metal "formal" saya, and can take more knocking around.

 

 In the British army swords came with two scabbards, a bright polished metal one, and a brown leather covered wooden one. These were defined as being "dress scabbards" and "field scabbards".

 To the best of my knowledge (happy to be informed otherwise) Japan was the only other country to adopt this practice. I wonder how many Shin Gunto came with two scabbards in the British fashion?

[Stephen]

Interesting David.