somen

[YOJIMBO]

discusion wellcome

[YOJIMBO]

.

[IanB]

This belongs to an armour I know but cannot remember where. Silver rabbits bouncing over waves on a leather ground - help senility setting in.

Ian Bottomley.

[YOJIMBO]

Looks like there's no interest. Feel free to delete it.

[Justin Grant]

I have to admit, these are not my area, or usually my cup of tea, but I rather like this one. The metal finish looks nice and well done. The proportions look right, and balanced. I am not a fan of the "chocolate" leather on the facing, but the obverse if it looks good. Is it the hand of Ichiro, or an older hand. It seems to my novice opinion that it comes from a skilled hand.

[Brian]

Lots of interest, but not being an armour guy, I have no idea what to make of it. I was hoping someone gives us some info.

[Kurikata]

What I know from my different readings of articles, is that 90% of the somen masks on the market are copies. I know nothing about somen mask and probably yours is a real stuff.

[uwe]

First glance, it might remember (or resembling) the works of “Ichiro” (respectively “Ryotaro”) but lacks the expression and the quality of both, IMHO.

The komori-zuke, on the tare, is a later addition/repair.

Estimating somen is quite difficult and I’m far from being experienced in this field. However, by chance, I’ll get the opportunity, to handle some pieces today. So maybe more later..... 

[Higo-san]

Would be interesting to see the armor it belongs to as Ian pointed out (if there is one). Would you kindly share some pictures, Simon? That might also be helpful in order to date your piece.

[YOJIMBO]

 don't know what Ian was talking about.

It feels like fine work to me. I think Edo.

In fact, I don't like Ichir's exaggerated grimaces so much.

[Greg F]

Ian is simply saying he has seen the armor that this peice belongs to and he is refering to the rabit on the neck peice.

 

Greg

[YOJIMBO]

Ian is simply saying he has seen the armor that this peice belongs to and he is refering to the rabit on the neck peice.

 

Greg

hmmm, very helpfull

 

delete it admin, as there is no serious discusion

[IanB]

Yojimbo,  It is not that there is no serious discussion, it is rather that there is little that can be said. Although early somen exist, they are totally different to this one which is typical of those made for very late Edo period armours. I doubt in fact they were ever really worn and seem to have been produced to show how skilled the armourer was and how wealthy the owner of the armour was in having one made. I referred to the fact that I had seen an armour in the past with the rabbit and waves theme done on leather but could not remember where or when. I see literally hundreds of armours a year but for some reason you seem to be taking umbrage because I could not  remember the detail of where or when I saw a particular one. For that I must apologise but there it is..

Ian Bottomley

[myochin]

This sômen seems to ring a bell, but I just can't remember where I saw it (maybe an auction).

Anyway, I am surprised to see that all 3 parts are rivetted together, and that the Inside red lacquer seems a little "fresh". I had first thought Fukutake, but the overall 'happy' expression is not his style.

 

Its a nice mask.

 

Paul

[YOJIMBO]

Anyway, I am surprised to see that all 3 parts are rivetted together, and that the Inside red lacquer seems a little "fresh". 

 

what surprise you ?  many of them are rivetted together

red lacquer also ok, for late edo good

[myochin]

Most sômen are made from 2 or 3 parts that are attached either by pins and/or hinges.

Fukutake for example rivetted the nose as it was too complicated to mahe a detachable nose.

As for the lacquer, in the pictures (for me at least), it seems too flashy. On most Edo period items the lacquer is slightly duller from age

 

Paul

[IanB]

The problem has been solvedby Jo. The armour I remembered is in the catalogue of the Mogami museum.

Ian Bottomley.

[tom]

Hi,

for me it is Gendai, not older as 50 years.And it was on Yahoo.

Look at the Link.

 

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u322711751

 

Tom

[IanB]

Tom,  The mask may well be relatively new, but the tare definitely belongs to the armour in the Mogami Museum. Unfortunately there is no view of the interior of the mask which would show the lacquering. That often gives away new creations.

Ian Bottomley.

[tom]

Ian, i hope you are well.

Check the Link i post, so you have a good look inside the of the Somen that show the lacquering. By the Tare maby you are right.But these Somen is never Edo, but the work is good, and the Price was ok.

 

Tom

[Luc T]

On the market again:

https://www.lempertz.com/en/catalogues/lot/1166-2/643-somen-menpo-19th-century.html