Help identifying sword please

[mh2324]

Hello everyone. First post here (not counting intro post I guess). Was hoping for some of your expertise in helping to identify this sword which I inherited from my grandfather. All I was told is that he brought the sword home from Japan following his deployment in WWII, but no further details. He didn’t ever talk about his time there. Thanks in advance for any help. I took some basic photos of the sword and scabbard but am not really even sure what to take pictures of at this point. I have never handled the blade or performed any maintenance of any kind (cleaning etc) as I’m scared to harm anything.

[Ray Singer]

To begin, please see below for some guidelines on how to disassemble the sword. Go slowly, and use care not to damage the wrap or allow the bare blade to fall.

 

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/swordcare.pdf

[Ray Singer]

And here is an example of the types of photos and angles which will be helpful to make an evaluation.

 

http://yakiba.com/Wak_Mumei_3.htm

[mh2324]

Thank you sir! I will do that tonight!

[mh2324]

Quick question until I can do that. The sword has a wooden handle and sheath such that when it is sheathed it looks like one continuous piece (minus a black ring where the handle meets the sheath). Is this style telling in any way as to time period vs other styles or general appearances? This is all very interesting to me. Eager to learn. Sorry, I know I’m probably butchering terminology but hopefully that makes sense.

[ROKUJURO]

mh2324,

please sign all posts with your first name plus an initial as is requested here.

The mounting you describe is a SHIRA SAYA. It is used when the blade is not in action, and it protects it from moisture/air. Swords are traditionally stored horizontally in a drawer of a TANSU (chest).

[mh2324]

Thank you and sorry.

 

Matt H

[mh2324]

Here is an overall preliminary pic. I will follow up with one showing some sort of marking near the handle. Thanks!

 

Matt H

[mh2324]

Last one until I can remove handle.

 

Matt H

[Ray Singer]

Is that a metal screw? If so, there should not be one in the tsuka (handle). Typically this is a wood peg. Remove carefully so that you do not damage the blade. Hopefully there is enough extending out that you can grasp and remove.

[mh2324]

Yes it does appear the be a slotted metal screw of some kind. There should be plenty to very carefully grasp and turn out. Once that is done will there be any good way to re-secure the blade to the handle?

 

Matt H

[Ray Singer]

The link above explains how to reseat the blade into the handle. Use a short length of bamboo chopstick to replace the removed screw.

[Ed]

Hmm, doesn't look like a screw to me, just a beat up peg.

[Bruce Pennington]

Agree with Ed. The mark is just where someone hit the peg with a sharp edge to wedge the mekugi into place.

 

You should be able to tap/push it out from the other side.

[16k]

Beat up peg for me too. Somehow, we don’t see much, but I like the look of what I’m seeing so far.

[mh2324]

Well it was indeed a peg and not a screw. The links on how to remove the handle were very helpful and it easily came off with no issue. Here are some pics.

[mh2324]

Looks like I can only do one at a time via my phone. Sorry...

[mh2324]

Pic 3

[mh2324]

Pic 4

[mh2324]

Last one for now unless another specific is needed. Thank you all again. I really appreciate your interest and willingness to share.

[mh2324]

Well a couple more I guess. There are two “dings” in the top side (non edge side) of the blade. I’m guessing would have taken some significant impact to cause. Almost looks like another sword or similar object hit it.

[mh2324]

Another further up the blade

[Tom Darling]

Thank you for showing your sword.  Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

[16k]

Can you make one without the habaki, please?

just like the one where you’re showing the whole blade.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Suriage blade, possibly o-suriage. Looks Shinto. The boshi looks strange - wonder if there was damage? And there's lots of active red rust on the nakago - time for some work with ivory or antler.

[mh2324]

Thanks for the reply and information. I’ll take the additional photos of the blade as soon as I get a chance today. I am using the search function to try and decipher what the suriage/o suriage means as well as Shinto. Does this terminology correspond with a particular time period? Thanks again. I’m learning a lot and very interested. Photos forthcoming.

[mh2324]

Well I believe I found the meaning and purpose of suriage as being the shortening of the overall length of the sword by shortening the tang portion? Is this generally good, bad, or neither in terms of quality of the sword? And as far as the “active red rust on the nakago”, is there anything that can readily be done about this and if so is it something I should be concerned about having done ASAP? I would like to preserve this sword the best I possibly can given it’s history with my grandfather. Thank you all very much.

[16k]

Suriage is a common practice. It is never seen as a good thing amongst collectors though acceptable for very old swords. It removes part of the value of the sword.

 

That said, it is a very common practice and many, many swords, particularly the very old ones have come to us in suriage form. Usually collectors say that since the Shinto period was a time of peace, there is no reason for a blade to be suriage, but here again, many examples exist.

 

Rich collectors won’t touch them with a ten foot pole, poorer ones like me don’t care. What counts is you have a real sword that deserves being taken care of, suriage or not.

 

For the red rust, the common recommended method is using a chip of ivory or antler to scrub it off, but I’ve never tried it myself. Most important rule: NEVER TOUCH THE BLADE WITH BARE HANDS. you can cause irreparable damage, both to the blade and your hands.

 

read this document too:

 

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/swordcare.pdf

[Ken-Hawaii]

Matt, almost all older blades were shortened. Suriage is less shortening than o-suriage. Sometimes, laws required shortening, although damage was another major factor. No relation to quality.

 

Yes, the red rust should be removed ASAP, usually with a piece of bone or antler, or a piece of ivory.

 

Shinto relates to a period of time from around 1603 to 1781.

[mh2324]

Thank you both so much. Is there a certain brand or type of oil (if any) that I should apply to the blade that is readily available? And the scabbard has begun to slightly split along the bottom edge seam. I looked around this forum and it appears that a method to keep it from splitting further would be to take a strip of paper and wrap it around the sheath taping it with masking tape to make a loop. Then pull that loop toward the top of the sheath to make it tight (hope that makes sense, the post I’m referring to was much more clear I’m sure). Lastly, in regard to the rust that could possibly be removed with antler or ivory, is this something that should be left to an expert to do? I have antler actually so that is readily available to me. I just want to err in every way on the side of caution so as to cause no damage. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.