Nashiji hada vs pattern found on rayskin

[djcollection]

I couldn't help but noticed the similarity between zoomed-in nashiji hada (really hard to capture on camera) and the rayskin pattern circled in red 

[Ken-Hawaii]

Zebras look alike, too.

[paulb]

not sure I am following your line of thought but some images of nashiji hada below for reference:

 

[Brian]

I get what he's saying....and agree.
Looking at that ray pattern circled, if you shrink it down you do get an idea of what nashiji is. Easier to see it in that form that to imaging the skin/flesh of a pear

[djcollection]

Thanks for the photos, Paul.

 

The pattern is really subtle as I have to adjust the angle along with the light in order to see it up close.

  On 1/3/2020 at 9:06 AM, paulb said:

not sure I am following your line of thought but some images of nashiji hada below for reference:

nk2.jpgnk3.jpgNk4gs.jpg

[djcollection]

Whenever I eat pear I think of nashiji hada and check for similarity before I eat it    

 

Brian, do you know how tosho forge the steel to show such hada?

  On 1/3/2020 at 9:49 AM, Brian said:

I get what he's saying....and agree.
Looking at that ray pattern circled, if you shrink it down you do get an idea of what nashiji is. Easier to see it in that form that to imaging the skin/flesh of a pear

 

  On 1/3/2020 at 9:49 AM, Brian said:

I get what he's saying....and agree.
Looking at that ray pattern circled, if you shrink it down you do get an idea of what nashiji is. Easier to see it in that form that to imaging the skin/flesh of a pear

[SAS]

"Add ingredients and mix well"

[paulb]

Mason

As to how they achieved it I think it has been a question largely unanswered over many hundreds of years. Many have tried to recreate it and some have come very close but not quite there.

I think one of the key factors  was the quality of steel they were using. These smiths were working for the nobility and Imperial court so only the very best steel would have been used. In many if not all cases they were using single piece construction, which I am told has its own challenges and requires considerable skill to work effectively. 

How they were able to so finely judge the point at which they should stop before losing hada altogether or burning off all the carbon the heavens only know but they did it time and time again and very consistently. It is sometimes hard to remember that all they had to use was a hammer, forge and anvil.

I admit I am very biased and in my opinion there is no finer example of the swordsmiths skill than is seen in the jigane of an Awataguchi smiths sword.

 

BTW for a long time I was working on the assumption that the hada was so called because it resembled the skin of a Japanese pear. Based on one of the standard references (I forget which) this is apparently incorrect it actually refers to the hada looking like the flesh of the pear not the skin. I guess it all depends where you put the emphasis in the "Ji" i.e. Nashiji hada or nashi-jihada

[djcollection]

THat's why it is call the art/craft of Japanese sword making

 

 

  On 1/4/2020 at 9:29 AM, paulb said:

Mason

As to how they achieved it I think it has been a question largely unanswered over many hundreds of years. Many have tried to recreate it and some have come very close but not quite there.

I think one of the key factors  was the quality of steel they were using. These smiths were working for the nobility and Imperial court so only the very best steel would have been used. In many if not all cases they were using single piece construction, which I am told has its own challenges and requires considerable skill to work effectively. 

How they were able to so finely judge the point at which they should stop before losing hada altogether or burning off all the carbon the heavens only know but they did it time and time again and very consistently. It is sometimes hard to remember that all they had to use was a hammer, forge and anvil.

I admit I am very biased and in my opinion there is no finer example of the swordsmiths skill than is seen in the jigane of an Awataguchi smiths sword.

 

BTW for a long time I was working on the assumption that the hada was so called because it resembled the skin of a Japanese pear. Based on one of the standard references (I forget which) this is apparently incorrect it actually refers to the hada looking like the flesh of the pear not the skin. I guess it all depends where you put the emphasis in the "Ji" i.e. Nashiji hada or nashi-jihada

[Guido]

The East Asian pear resembles more an apple in shape and bite than the “Western” pear; in Japan it’s called nashi, which is written 梨 or, more old fashioned, 梨子.

 

If we follow the usual pattern (mokume-hada, ayasugi-hada, etc. [not mokume-jihada, ayasugi-jihada, etc.]), it should indeed be nashiji-hada 梨地*肌. Besides, there’s a lacquer technique that’s also called nashiji 梨地 - because of the same reason, i.e. resembling a pear, and the ji 地 is here certainly not part of jihada 地肌.

 

Some books say nashiji resembles the skin of the pear, some say the flesh – there seems to be no consensus or definite answer. Take your pick:

[Stephen]

The flesh always go for the flesh.