Kantei Referance Book

[lonely panet]

hi guys,  hope every ones Xmas was great.

 

i have jus got yet another good book from Marus Sesko called  "KANTEI REFERACE BOOK of hamon and boshi. i must say the amount of oshigata is great.

 

but i must say i think the books above my skill level in identiying complicated hamon styles at this point.

 

so just asking if any other membes have this book and have used it in kantei's yet?. an you give me points or hints to get the most out of the book, as the same smiths can be spread across the book, pages apart and under differant hamon sections

 

kind regards Hamish

[Ken-Hawaii]

I've had his book for almost 6 years, & have used it a few times. what works for me is to first doing my best to identify a blade, & then using his references (mostly the boshi) to confirm what I think. Of course I almost always end up scratching my head at the results.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Is there an index or easily usable table of contents? Sounds like you almost need a separate index sheet or guide to get the most value from it.

[BIG]

Hi Hamish, I collect shinshinto and use following books

 

Shinto & Shinshinto Kantei ( Markus)

Index of Japanese Swordsmiths ( Markus)

Kantei reference Hamon & Boshi ( Markus)

Nihon Shin-Shinto shi (Markus)

Nihonto Koza Shinshinto ( Afu Watson Transl.)

Shin shinto taikan (Iimura)

 

Best

[16k]

Is there an index or easily usable table of contents? Sounds like you almost need a separate index sheet or guide to get the most value from it.

 

That the problem I have with the book. The lack of index. Basically, what you have to do is Kantei the Hamon and Boshi you have in front of you, then go to the book and check those that look like yours. It’s not the easiest way to proceed. It really is a kantei book more than a reference book. Still, great because of the amount of oshigata.

[Jacques D.]

I've always learnt that kantei begins by the sugata, then kitae etc... If you base your kantei only on hamon and boshi you will be too often misleaded.

[16k]

Agree with that. I think that this book only comes handy at the end... if you can use it, because if the sword you’re working on isn’t the typical sword made by the smith, then the book is useless.

[paulb]

I think Jacques is absolutely right. Kantei should always start with sugata. The late Dr. Compton wrote extensively about this in an essay published in the 100 masterpieces book published by Sotherbeys. The shape can tell you a great deal and is generally (certainly not always) a more consistant element than either hamon or boshi.

[lonely panet]

im more aiming at the difference smith issue, with smiths in the shinshinto area working in more then 1 tradition being listed in multiple sections. if you slightly mi-identify the hamon style, you will be looking in the wrong area. "easy for me" to do.

 

the book seems confusing, example kotetsu is listed over 4 pages,  none consecutively.  are Shinto smiths being listed before koto smiths?? etc.

 

im sure theres a system or method, im just not seeing it? 

[16k]

The system is listed in the first page, really. It’s basically how would you describe your Hamon/Boshi, then go to the relevant pages. If the swordsmith used different types, he’ll be listed in different sections. Again I think it lacks an index where you would know on which pages a particular swordsmith is referenced.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Perhaps an oversight or it may have simply an exhaustive task on top of an already enormous book.

[Jean]

In fact all these kantei elements are linked and the first step (sugata) must be confirmed by the second step hada and so on.

 

For multiple reasons, sugata on its own can be very misleading. If you remember the chronological table of Japanese swords sugata from Heian to Meiji, all swords are ubu. Most of swords available for Kantei in Western countries are (for Heian to Nambokucho) O suriage, this can kill the sugata being the first step to kantei.

 

Concerning the Kantei, if I remember well, Mike Y could confirm, one of the best NBTHK Kantei contest winner has learned hundreds of hamon

[Pete Klein]

Jean, Michael Hagenbusch (RIP) and Hans Eschbaum - both formidable (although Hans would most likely deny he is).

[Blazeaglory]

Is there an index or easily usable table of contents? Sounds like you almost need a separate index sheet or guide to get the most value from it.

Next to my Japanese sword for connesiours(sp?), Marks Kantei reference is my go to. It's basically just a large collection of multiple Hamon/Ha and Boshi from many different smiths.

 

I use it for comparison to try narrowing down smiths by slowly examining each page. Sometimes I'll just look for fun to see all the different variations of intricate patterns.

 

If only for a nice Nihonto book full of hundreds of different hamon/ Boshi, you really can't beat it. The time it took must have been years or decades to get all of them in one book

[lonely panet]

When I can afford it I'll be buying the Lot I, Shinto and shingunto kantei books

[Blazeaglory]

When I can afford it I'll be buying the Lot I, Shinto and shingunto kantei books

 

I cant remember when but Mark puts everything on sale once or twice a year for really low prices. Its definitely worth it. Keep an eye out