Help to identify blade please

[Last samurai]

Help please

I purchased a ww2 Japanese Katana that was said to have been captured from a Japanese captain T.Kuroki and handed to a US corporal J.J.Evans, there is some paper work with the blade but I cant tie them together. My knowledge about this subject is very limited and would appreciate any help..

 

[SAS]

Curious as to why a Japanese captain would surrender his sword to a US corporal, then write him a letter providing sword kantei.

[Ray Singer]

It is difficult in the current condition to give it an attribution. Nobukuni would not be my first call though. While the nakago makes this look at a glance like an ubu shinto blade, you have carefully osuriage nakago for older blades that can look this like as well.

[Geraint]

Dear Steve.

 

This refers to the 2nd Division in the British Army, the letter may have been written by the Captain about the sword but not necessarily his own sword.  

All the best.

[16k]

Hi Mr last samurai (a name would be nice!)

 

Others will probably tell you more, but I seriously doubt this is a Nobokuni sword, at least not THE Nobokuni. I first thought I saw a Seki Hamon, but in hindsight, this is rather a crab claw Hamon, so it could indeed be

Shinto.

[ROKUJURO]

Japan surrendered on Sept 2nd, 1945. Captain KUROKI wrote his appraisal (in amazingly good English!) in 1946, October. So I do not see the act of surrendering.

What I can see from the HAMON looks like oil quenched, so possibly a WWII blade. NAKAGO looks older, but not 350 years.

LAST SAMURAI (is that indeed you, Tom Cruise?), please sign all posts with your first name plus an initial as we all do.

[ChrisW]

Could have been a holdout Jean. There were Japanese holdouts for months and sometimes years after.

[SAS]

I am going from what the OP said regarding the capture, and posting the subsequent letter. Extraordinary claims require some proofs. The sword isn't telling me much.

[PNSSHOGUN]

A letter like that has been seen before, usually written by an officer working or in contact with the US forces in some capacity for some time. The sword was probably surrendered to a higher rank then later gifted to the Cpl. by that officer. There is a book with many such letters and circumstances called "SHOKAN" written by Richard Fuller.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Interesting, John, thanks. Just downloaded the book.

[Last samurai]

Sorry to all my name is Neil, would it help with a pic of the full blade ? regards Neil

[Bazza]

It would help if you showed us a closeup of the edge just at the notch, say at a 45 degree angle looking down at the edge.  I'm looking for a hint of ububa (flattened, unsharpened edge) that would possibly signify a sword of WW2 origin.

 

BaZZa.

[Rivkin]

Overall photo of the blade is needed, but it somewhat feels like (post 1500) Muromachi and possibly Momoyama Bizen for some reason in later suriage condition.

 

P.S. now reading the document, yes it can theoretically be Nobukuni from say Tensho 10  (1581 or about) to 1600 or so, Momoyama period.

 

Momoyama swords can be weird in the sense that you have that short period when you can see Odawara Soshu doing Rai, Bizen Osafune doing hitatsura Soshu, and Mino smith doing Ichimonji copy for some reason. Atypical typical, guess sometimes you had to do what Daimyo wanted to add to his collection.

 

Kirill R.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Neil, please take a look at http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29732-bush%C5%AB-shimohara-ju-yamamoto-naiki-yasushige-katana/to see which photos will be the most helpful in identifying your blade.

 

You can also add your first name in your Signature. Welcome to the forum.

[Bazza]

 

guess sometimes you had to do what Daimyo wanted to add to his collection.

 

Kirill R.

===============================================================================

Or whatever the battlefield exigencies of the time demanded...

 

BaZZa.

[Lance]

Rather than a surrender document, the letter attributing the sword to Nobukuni looks to be an appraisal signed by Captain Kuroki, not a personal sword surrendered by him. Probably one of the Japanese soldiers tasked with managing surrendered/collected souveneirs to occupying soldiers?

Regards,

Lance

[Last samurai]

Here are a few more photos if you need anything more specific just let me know. thanks

[Last samurai]

Here's pic of full blade.

 

[Ray Singer]

You have a blade in nioi/ko-nie with bo-utsuri and a hamon with areas that resemble kani-no-tsume (crab claw choji). I would be looking at something along the lines of an o-suriage mumei Bizen blade.

[Last samurai]

Have you any idea who was the smith was and how old this blade is please..

[SAS]

I would go with Ray's analysis, age is a bit tricky, mid to later Koto maybe.

[Last samurai]

As I mentioned I have very limited knowledge on the subject, am I correct in saying the blade has small straight crab claw hamon on a short or shortened unsigned blade from the Bizen school/province ?

But no smith or age, I still don't think the paper work has any relevance to the blade.

[Jacques]

You have a blade in nioi/ko-nie with bo-utsuri and a hamon with areas that resemble kani-no-tsume (crab claw choji). I would be looking at something along the lines of an o-suriage mumei Bizen blade.

 

 

 Frankly, i wonder how you can see all this things... In fact i see nothing which can be descripted.

[Last samurai]

I used Google to try and translate as best i could

[16k]

Frankly, i wonder how you can see all this things... In fact i see nothing which can be descripted.

The crab claw Hamon is pretty obvious, but I gotta admit I’d missed the utsuri and wouldn’t have noticed it if Ray hadn’t pointed it out.

 

Neil, yes, you’ve understood Ray’s description very well. As for age, it’s difficult to determine without a mei and because the blade was shortened, so it’s lost it’s original shape. Some people can give you an estimate, but they need to be better than I am to imagine the original shape. Taking it to a Shinsa would be the right think to do.

[Geraint]

Dear Neil.

 

You are well within reach of a number of members in the North of England, just waiting for one of them  to chime in.  An in hand conversation is what you need.  All the paperwork should stay with the sword, I see no reason to doubt it's association with the history of the blade though the attribution will always remain problematic.

 

Ray's assessment is to be trusted at this stage so go slow and find out more.

 

All the best.

[Last samurai]

I have no problem Rays assessment he's obviously on the ball, its just putting it in layman's terms for us novices to understand. My next question was that i have no intention of selling so would it be feasible to have blade polished and restored to how it was

[Last samurai]

And thanks to all for your valued input..

[Greg F]

If you have no intention of selling then I say yes if you want to fully enjoy what you have and are happy to spend money on polish and imo shirasaya. This is something only you can decide.

 

Greg

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Neil , I am fairly sure that Evans was an English rather than a US corporal . The Brits were in Malaya not the Americans . Maj General Churcher was an English officer . The letters RASC after Evans's name indicate that he was in the Royal Army Service Corps 

 

The scratched Japanese characters on the brass fittings read Tatsuyama which is probably the surname of the swords actual owner . Soldiers who had a sword sometimes wanted to know what they had and approached English speaking Japanese for advice . Not wishing to admit ignorance about swords the Japanese told them a story . I have seen a few of these attributions and it is clear that at least some of the people giving the attribution didn't know much . I suspect that that is the case here . Still you are fortunate to have all of this paperwork

 

For what it is worth I think that the blade is much younger than 350 years old.

 

Ian Brooks