Dome-shaped tsuba

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

What is this tsuba shape called?

[DirkO]

Wan-gata

[Ken-Hawaii]

Thank you, Dirk.

[vajo]

Anyone see a wan-gata decorated? I only see undecorated pure iron tsuba of these type.

[Jean]

It is because you are young Chris

 

Here is one from my collection (it has two mon)

[Ken-Hawaii]

There were actually a couple on NMB, now that I knew what to look for: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/9546-concave-tsuba/ & http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/24812-uncommon-bowl-shaped-tsuba-idea-about-school-or-origin/

[Kurikata]

Mine

[Steves87]

I saw this one on auction today, has a bit of a Namban feel to it...?

[Stephen]

Stephen i think thats cut out cookie jar lid.

[Curran]

Most dome shaped tsuba (wan tsuba), come from the Kyushu area and reflect foreign influence. Ken, as a former fencer, you should appreciate the influence- though the Japanese tended to invert them.

 

It was nice to see Jean's Hizen example again. The best ones seem to be Higo / Hizen.

     I came into ownership of a nice Higo Jingo example this year. Most of the Higo Jingo ones are by the sandai, but the life of the nidai and sandai overlapped greatly. This is a nice later nidai example, where much of the appeal is tactile. image attached.

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

Ken, as a former fencer, you should appreciate the influence- though the Japanese tended to invert them.

I still fence, Curran, just not competitively. Do the Japanese really point the bell towards the tip?

[Curran]

 

Do the Japanese really point the bell towards the tip?

Yes, about 99% of the time.

With the Japanese rigid curved cutting blade, the European binding advantages of the bell are mostly lost.

The Japanese aesthetic sense takes over, and you have the bell inverted to that of its western counterparts.

 

That said, I do believe I have seen at least one Namban Wan (nice rhyme to that) which was made to be bell up.

It is the exception, and was one to fit the notion that it was foreign made for VOC trade.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Umm, VOC means "Volatile Organic Compound" to me. I assume you mean something else, right?

[PietroParis]

Umm, VOC means "Volatile Organic Compound" to me. I assume you mean something else, right?

 

 

I guess he means this.

 

Cheers, Pietro

[Andi B.]

Could this be caused by inertia forces when you draw your sword very fast over a long period?

[Ken-Hawaii]

[Guido]

This is a set I used to own around 15 years ago, and later sold to a friend/dealer in the US: hard to see in the photos, but the tsuba has actually a quite pronounced wangata shape. Rather large, the tsuba has a diameter of over 8 cm, and the fuchi is a little shy of 4 cm.

 

All iron, the fuchi has a shakudō inset, the kashira matching shitodome, and the motif is dragonflies and karakusa. Looks Hazama’ish at first glance, but papered to Nagasaki IIRC.

 

[Kurikata]

Another Hizen one of mine

[Ken-Hawaii]

Very nice, Bruno. Wish mine had the same patterns.

[DirkO]

My wangata

[Curran]

DSC08758.JPG

My wangata

Oh baby. Now we are talking.

Nidai, no?

[DirkO]

Jinbei ????

[Michael 101]

Lovely example Dirk, so what with your 1st master, Currans 2nd master I better add a 3rd master Jingo.

 

happy Christmas to all.

 

michael 

 

[Kanenaga]

So -- 1st, 2nd, 3rd -- here's the only Jingo true daisho I've encountered, both cup-shaped.

Hakogaki says nidai, but I think more likely yondai-godai.

 

Les

[JohnTo]

I believe that I have posted this tsuba before.  It is decorated on the inside with red lacquer.  On the outside are three engraved  phoenix in silver and gold gilt (difficult to see in the photo).  The boars eye (heart) piecing is also large for a tsuba.  What religions do you no that are based on three deities (father, son and holy ghost), believe in rising from the dead (or ashes) and depict the #2 deity with a large heart? I believe that this tsuba belonged to a Christian (Roman catholic).

 

Regards, John

[Curran]

So -- 1st, 2nd, 3rd -- here's the only Jingo true daisho I've encountered, both cup-shaped.

Hakogaki says nidai, but I think more likely yondai-godai.

 

Les

This thread turned into a rich thread, with some superb Jingo Jangle.

Dirk:    I didn't know whether to hope Jinbei or not. It certainly looked it to me, but I couldn't remember if I'd seen a shodai wan shaped tsuba before.

Les:    As you said, "True Jingo Daisho". Now I am trying to remember if I have seen a Jingo daisho before.

This is better than opening presents.

 

Some great Hizen examples from Bruno, Jean, and Guido.

And John's is probably the deepest domed one I can remember.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I particularly like Dirk's, both for the "surprised appearance," & for its massiveness.

[dirk marshall]

cupped tsuba

[DirkO]

I particularly like Dirk's, both for the "surprised appearance," & for its massiveness.

 

A bit of of a visual trick, it's only 2-2,5 mm thick. Looks massive, but is suprisingly elegant and light when in hand.

[Michael 101]

Hi Les,

 

I certainly do not recall seeing any Jingo daisho either in person or published apart from the set you have and suspect they are very rare indeed. I agree that yours are unlikely 2nd master and more probable 3rd or 4th. Great find.

 

Dirk - a truly great tsuba with a very powerful atmosphere and the portrayal of the geese is just perfect and couldn’t be anyone other than the first master. Im pleased too see your still enjoying that one. 

 

 Kindest regards 

 

Michael