Tochibata cast tsuba

[JohnTo]

Hi guys I have a cast tsuba for your comments, timely with the example just posted by Guido and also because I have just seen an almost identical example of my tsuba on Ebay.

My tsuba was part of a job lot from an auction seen only in a photo.  I was disappointed when I saw it ‘live’ for the first time as the iron did not look quite right and, like a badly fitting wig, I could see the joins.  Although the iron did not look like other examples of cast iron that I have, I put it aside and forgot about it until I saw an almost exact copy on Ebay today described as from the ‘Tochihata’ School.  I can’t see the casting joins in this example, but the iron has a similar appearance.

The Nihon To koza gives the correct reading of the School as Tochibata, a group of blacksmiths who made farm implements and seemed to have made tsuba as a sideline.  Their work seems to be characterised by a rope pattern around the mimi, as my tsuba, but I have found no reference to their manufacturing process.  Did they cast iron blanks and then finish by hand?  I can see no reason why anyone would copy their work as the references that I have found do not rate them highly (Nihon to Koza: ‘few people took notice of them because these are not especially beautiful.’)  On the other hand a NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho paper for one can be found on the internet.  Its difficult to judge from Internet photos, but some examples of Tochibata tsuba look forged, while others look cast.

 

Size:6.9 cm x 6.6 cm x 0.45 cm (about 0.3 cm bigger than Ebay example)

Your thoughts please.  Until today I had never heard of the Tochibata School.  Is this a genuine Tochibata School tsuba although it is cast?  Any info on the School would be appreciated.

 

first three pictures are my tsuba, fourth one is from Ebay.

 

Best regards, John

(just a guy making observations, asking questions, trying to learn)

 

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

If it can help, here is ma Tochibata (I also see worded "Tojibata") tsuba.

A genuine hand made and not cast one.

 

Sébastien

[Brian]

General thought is that there are NO real cast iron tsuba and that this was not done. Not sure when it started, whether late 1800's or well into the 1900's..

[Gunome]

The last photo Don't looks like to be a cast tsuba. however, not sure your tsuba is from Tochibata school.

Here are the the Wakayama's Tochibata school pages.

[b.hennick]

Here are some photos of my Tochibata tsuba. Please note that the kozuka ana has been added or at least the size increased. It is well done.

 

[lotus]

John -

 

Yours does show clear cast lines, especially in the 3rd pic. The ebay one in the last pic looks much better. I would like to see better lighting on the inner walls to be sure though. Also, the execution and subtle differences in the ebay are a definite improvment over the cast one. They used sand iron which can sometimes give it a sort of grainy texture to the iron. The ebay pics might be showing that to us. Attached is my Tochibata which is still one of my favorites. I also have a couple other rope rimmed Tsuba, one of which "could" be a Tochi but I am not sure of the other one. Will post pics when I have some time...

[ROKUJURO]

.... They used sand iron which can sometimes give it a sort of grainy texture to the iron..... 



Patrick,

there is no such thing as 'sand iron' that I am aware of. TAMAHAGANE - the base material of all iron items in the SAMURAI culture - is being made from sand iron ore, and the result does not have a 'sandy' look or structure. It is mainly the non-forging production process (= casting) or a later chemical treatment (= patination) that can produce a grainy surface (e.g. YAGYU TSUBA).

[IanB]

For years I have been banging on about the casting of sukashi tsuba and asking how they were produced when we know there were no piercing saws in Edo period Japan. Yes, you could chain-drill around the outline of every space and then chisel away the waste metal, but what a vast amount of work. The makers of these objects had to eat which meant turning out their products economically. No, these tsuba were carved in wood, with the solid parts somewhat over thick, a mould made and then cast. They then needed to be de-carburised by heating in a sealed container with iron oxide when the cast iron is converted to malleable iron that could then be cleaned up with scrapers and files. If as I suspect this was the process, the so-called 'bones' exhibited by some tsuba are simply regions where the de-carburisation was incomplete leaving harder pieces that wear less and end up raised above the surface. 

Ian Bottomley

[ROKUJURO]

Ian,

do you know about any evidence that the so-called TEKKOTSU are indeed harder than the surrounding matrix? Or is this just an assumption that is repeated by everybody without proof because is was written somewhere?

Carburization or decarburization are processes of carbon migration in steel which are performed by heating the material up to 900°C and above. As long as the heat is there, the objects (or the workpieces) will have the same temperature througout as metals are very good heat conductors. 

We have to use modern metallurgical knowledge to solve the mystery. 

[IanB]

Rokujuro,

 

True we should us metallurgical analysis. As for the hardness of tekkotsu, I made the assumption on the basis that since they are proud of the surrounding surface they have worn less.  and yes, the edges of tsuba do wear. I have one with arched edges which on one side are worn so thin as to be almost worn through. 

Ian

[ROKUJURO]

Ian,

wear might be imaginable in very rare singular cases. I have seen that on soft metal TOSOGU. But if you look at TSUBA with prominent TEKKOTSU everywhere (and not only on the MIMI), you will have problems to explain that by your theory. 

[16k]

For years I have been banging on about the casting of sukashi tsuba and asking how they were produced when we know there were no piercing saws in Edo period Japan. Yes, you could chain-drill around the outline of every space and then chisel away the waste metal, but what a vast amount of work. The makers of these objects had to eat which meant turning out their products economically. No, these tsuba were carved in wood, with the solid parts somewhat over thick, a mould made and then cast. They then needed to be de-carburised by heating in a sealed container with iron oxide when the cast iron is converted to malleable iron that could then be cleaned up with scrapers and files. If as I suspect this was the process, the so-called 'bones' exhibited by some tsuba are simply regions where the de-carburisation was incomplete leaving harder pieces that wear less and end up raised above the surface.

Ian Bottomley

Couldn’t they just simply use wax like the Celts did?

 

EDIT: answering my own question. Probably not or there wouldn’t be flashing as in a two part mold.

[JohnTo]

Thanks guys for your comments.  It seems that there are some nice Tochibata tsuba out there that are not cast, despite the Nihon To Koza virtually describing the Tochibata School as a minor one of village blacksmiths.  I see that the Ebay tsuba sold for about £90, so maybe someone got a bargain in terms of a rust free sukashi tsuba from a rare school, or maybe not.

I’m still left with the question as to who/why someone should want to make cast copies of a little known school of tsuba makers when Akasaka etc tsuba would have been more lucrative.  After all, painting forgers tend to copy Rembrandts and Renoirs, not unknown artists whose original work can be bought cheaply.

I see we are moving onto tekkotsu again.  Is it hard or soft iron?  When I have suggested previously that tekkotsu is formed in a final heat treatment I have been told that there is no evidence that tsuba were subject to yakiire.  Reading Markus Sesko’s excellent ‘Handbook of Sword Fittings related terms’ I find three references to ‘yakite’ (translation of ‘application of heat’) as the final stage in the production of some tsuba.  I don’t know if ‘yakite’ is another way of reading ‘yakiire’, but Markus tends to be very exact in his translations and corrects general misreadings of kanji found in other books.  My conclusion remains that heating and quenching would lead to the formation of hard martensite particles which would be prominent from the surface as softer iron shrinks more during quenching (as in sword making), whereas heating without quenching might lead to the preferential loss (oxidation) of hard iron (as in acid etching) leading to soft iron tekkotsu.  After carefully looking at my tsuba, my money is still on hard iron, but as we scientists say ‘We need more research’. I have several cast tsuba, but none have tekkotsu.  

Best regards, John

(just a guy making observations, asking questions, trying to learn)