Kaneuji?

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I recently bought this shin gunto, because I liked the quality of the mounts. Unfortunately the photos that were supplied of the blade weren't anywhere near good enough for me to tell much about it. I just received it today and haven't hadn't a proper chance to photograph it or examine it closely, but it is definitely out of polish. It seems to have an oddly placed kinzogan or perhaps kinpun mei attributing the blade to Kaneuji. Am I reading this correctly?

 

Unfortunately, some Bubba has recently drilled an additional mekugi-ana, and the habaki is firmly stuck on the blade.

 

Cheers,

Bryce

[SAS]

Didn't buy it from samurai monkey, did you? Looks very questionable.

[Bryce]

G'day Steve,

 

It was an auction and I went in with my eyes open. It may be that the blade and koshirae don't belong together. The nakago looks like it belongs to a showato, but it must be custom ordered as the nagasa is around 72cm and the overall length of the koshirae is 104cm, which is about right. The hamon looks like it could be gunome midare.

 

Cheers,

the Bryce

[PNSSHOGUN]

Those kesho are classic Seki-To. Need more photos of it all, mounts included, to give any helpful advice.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

 

I had the chance to take a few more photos today. The bad news is that I don't think this blade was originally mounted in this set of koshirae. The good news is that it may be a decent blade. Much of the hamon has been obscured by some light sharpening, but I can see hada with nie and the boshi is intact and is komaru. Some of the peaks in the hamon appear to have crab claw like structures that I wasn't able to capture in the photos.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[SAS]

Is the mei in gold lacquer, gold, or paint pen? Kaneuji is a big name.... even if gimei and in the bad state of polish, it seems to have some promise.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hmm, the kinzogan mei looks very poorly added, usually these are finely inlaid and finished. The mounts are the winner.

[Bryce]

G'day Steve,

 

I think it is inlaid, although it is slightly higher than the surrounding steel. Looking at the hamachi I am beginning to think the blade may have some age.

 

Also just noticed these kanji on the fuchi. Any ideas?

 

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[uwe]

Seems to be “横山”, (Yokoyama)....

[Bryce]

Thanks Uwe

 

Cheers,

Bryce

[SAS]

Looks like it has the possibility of being an older Mino blade, but it is hard to tell in the state of polish. I do see activity that is interesting in the ha.

[Ed]

A few things to note:

1. There were probably at least 50 smiths which used the name Kaneuji from the 1300's to the 1950's.

2. Forget about it being the big name Kaneuji, it ain't!  As an example of quality/value differences, Shizu Saburo Kaneuji was rated at 120 pts, Nidai 75, and after that they fall to between 8-20.

3. Disregard the kinzogan mei.  It looks like the work of a third grader.

4. Neither the nakago nor sori look Koto. Best case, maybe late Muromachi.

5. The only way to know more is by a thorough assessment of the work.

6. In order to do that, it needs to be polished by a trained polisher in order to asses any hatarake or kantei points.

7. With the lack of detailed information on these smiths, there is no guarantee that after polish much more could be known without sending it to shinsa. And that is a gamble in itself.

8. Doubtful it would be worth polish, shirasaya, and shinsa but that is your call.

[Bryce]

G'day Ed,

Thank you for your input. I was hoping that someone knowledgeable like yourself would be able to give me some tips. I didn't think the blade would be a national treasure, but I was hoping that it was a decent blade.

I took a couple of measurements and the nagasa is about 72cm, width at the Hamachi 2.9cm, width at kissaki 2.0cm and the kissaki is about 4.5cm long. Didn't get around to the sori.

I did manage to get a shot of the crab claws in the peaks of the hamon. Does this point it in a particular direction?

Cheers,

Bryce

[Ken-Hawaii]

That hamon pattern looks like Koshi-no-hiraita (see page 96 in Nagayama for the pattern), & page 104 shows a list of tosho who used that pattern. Considering the sugata, I'd check out Ishido Tameyasu, Tatara Nagayuki, & one of the many Sukesada smiths. Hope that helps.

[Ed]

Bryce,

There is only so much one can tell about a blade from a few less than optimal photos of a blade that is in a state of poor polish.  As Ken pointed out above there where a number of smiths who produced this type of hamon, and probably more who produced it occasionally or accidentally. Differentiating them from these photos would be a daunting if not impossible task.  

 

I am sorry that I can't be more positive, but based on what we have to work with, I couldn't say more.

 

One thing to keep in mind is to take any specific input you receive as nothing more than opinions based on speculation. It could be a good blade, it could be a mediocre blade but no one can tell you anything absolute based on these photos.  Not all advise will be good, not all will be bad, and not all the bad will be intentional.  The question is, how will know which is which? Twenty different opinions will do nothing but confuse you and ultimately the only opinion that counts are the opinions of the shinsa team. And remember while theirs is an opinion too, it is the best opinion you can get!

 

If you want a great example of this point, go to the archives and look up the "Dotanuki" thread.  A member here and a nice guy bought a Dotanuki Katana from me.   Over several years of showing it to others, they had him convinced he had made a bad purchase. He was told the loose grain in the kissaki were hagire, the tip had been broken and reshaped, it was gimei, etc.  Well, he took my advise, ignored them and sent it to shinsa and viola it passed.  There were no hagire, no broken tip, and the mei was shoshin.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

 

Thank you for your time. Is it possible to say if the original mekugi ana is drilled or punched?

 

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Ed]

Hard to say for sure from that photo as positioning, lighting and shadows can affect what you see.  If it is punched there should be some taper.  Looking at this photo at the 2 o'clock position there looks to be some tapering, yet straight across a the 7 o'clock position there looks to be none.  Tried looking at the first photo but it is the same only cropped here.

 

As the lighting seems best at 7 o'clock, my guess is drilled. 

 

Look at this photo of a Ko-Bizen blade.  The top hole was added later and most likely drilled, note the center hole which was clearly punched as was the bottom hole.

 

 

 

 

[Bryce]

Thanks Ed,

I know what I am looking for now.

Cheers,

Bryce