Type 95 NCO Sword Questions?

[Smee78]

Hello everyone,

 

So its been an iteresting few weeks for me, I just started down my path to learning about Nihonto after seeing a few swords that a friend had shown me. I had taken an interest in the non traditional Type 95 NCO swords (as a retired USAF NCO they held some interest to me and are more in my price range).  I had a few swords saved in my Ebay favorites (I know, I know) just because they had a lot of pictures and was using them to compare to the information I was learning here.  Well my wife saw them and thought she would surprise me with one for Christmas, well she purchased one gave it to me yesterday because she was so excited and could not wait. The one she purchased from the list was listed as a 

 

WW2 ORIGINAL Japanese TYPE 95 NCO SWORD KATANA SHIN GUNTO AND MATCHING SCABBARD. Condition is Good, blade is very bright, Scabbard and hilt show typical war wear. Numbers match, nicely marked.

 

The dealer has a 30 day return policy so that is a plus if its not what it seems to be, so I would like to get the boards opinion as to the real or fake status of this sword.

 

It is missing its top retaining screw and nut and has a piece of bamboo/chop stick in its place. I also found (not listed in the auction) a light engraving on the Saya with S/Sgt Carl M Smith.

 

 

[Smee78]

More pictures from auction.

[Smee78]

A few More

[Smee78]

What is the difference between the four cannon ball Tokyo Artillery Arsenal and the Army Arsenal Kokura Factory trademarks? I'm also guessing the Tokyo stamp to be in the middle and the last to be the dash flower unknown from Brian's post.

[vajo]

Looks good for me. The number on the blade is nice. 

I have a an inscription of a Soldiers service tag no. an a NCO swords saya and a second large number inscripted too. I found the soldier on a ww2 service website. He was passing away 1987 and was a member of a ground crew of the US Navy Air Force in the pacific war.

 

Interesting.

[Smee78]

Thanks Vajo, 

 

That's interesting that you found an inscription as well, does anyone know if this was common practice during the time? The middle initial on this example is had to read, could be an X or M, its just hard to tell. The best part for me is I also am a Smith so it just adds to the interest for me.

[paul griff]

Hello Ron,

Agree with Chris,it’s a real one.I would hazard a guess someone in the past removed the screw,or broke it trying to remove it to look at the tang( nakago ) ...Wouldn’t bother me at all about that aspect..Nice to have the added bonus of the engraving...good bit of history...Altogether a good find..

Regards,

Paul..

[Austus]

Isn't that number way too high for that tsuba?

[16k]

Yes, real one! You can probably find a new retaining screw on eBay. Congrats on your new acquisition and thank your wife for this great gift!

[Austus]

Does the number on the scabbard match the number on the blade? Can't read it in the picture. Still worried about the brass tsuba with a number this high.

[Smee78]

Thats great news to hear everyone, I look forward to taking care of this piece of history. I will keep an eye out for a replacement screw set just to complete it, I would like to find an original and not a repop so any tips on finding an original?  And yes I will thank my wife for such an awesome gift. 

 

Yes, the number from the blade matches the number on the scabbard.

Austin, do you have a number range that these were made in? I would love to be able to put some type of date to this sword.

[16k]

Ron, although I hate to say it, your best bet for an original is from the reviled Showa 22. This guy is a moron, selles overpriced stuff, but he makes so many frankenswords that he sells parts too. I hate giving him business though.

 

... or you can post in the Want to Buy section whether one of our kind members has a spare one. That would be so much better.

[Smee78]

Thanks JP,

 

I will post a WTB here and hope to find one. I have read about Showa 22 and Monkey and don't like guys like them so I will try to stay away from them. Thanks for the tip.

[16k]

Oops! I especially meant Monkey! Showa is less of a con artist!

[Shamsy]

Never buy from Monkey. Ever. There are plenty of good 95s listed from good sellers. About half the regular ebay sellers mix parts and sell shoddy swords. The other half are excellent individuals, great swords and collectors themselves who actually care about the hobby.

 

Brass tsuba were made concurrent to the iron tsuba, so you will find brass pattern 2 from around 7,000 into the 100,000 range.

 

It's a big shame about the screw. I'd be surprised if you could find one. If you do, please let me know!! Spare 95 screws are like hens teeth.

[Shamsy]

What is the difference between the four cannon ball Tokyo Artillery Arsenal and the Army Arsenal Kokura Factory trademarks? I'm also guessing the Tokyo stamp to be in the middle and the last to be the dash flower unknown from Brian's post.

Don't quite get what you're asking... Stamps are the manufacturer/subcontractors, then the quality/acceptance/inspection stamp, then the arsenal stamp.

 

Your sword is thus stamped Ichi (theorised to potentially represent Tokyo First), To (The Tokyo First arsenal stamp and lastly the Kokura arsenal stamp. Not a clear picture of the middle stamp though, just assumed.

 

Oh, lastly, small edit to say well done and congratulations on having a go at researching your stamps yourself. See a lot of 'what's this, is it real' posts.

[Smee78]

Thanks for the clarification, I will keep an eye out. 

 

As for the screw, I have seen a few on ebay as kits but they appear new stuff. Who knows mabye I will get lucky and find one?

[16k]

A new one would be better than nothing, but are you sure you’re not talking about 98’s scrute barrels?

 

Oh, and a nice tassel would be great too! Those models had the leather ones with a buckle.

[Shamsy]

If you want to buy another sword off eBay, try this https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Japanese-Officers-Wood-handle-NCO-Sword-Type-95-ShinGunto-Matching/254441334767?hash=item3b3de2a7ef:g:CY8AAOSw9qFd3E6U. Offer 1200 and no more though.

 

This is a very nice sword from with an uncommon stamp combination. It's expensive, but has an offer option. You get what you pay for and it's in very good condition. 95s will only continue to go up in value.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Type-95-NCO-Sword-with-Matching-Numbers/183957190246?hash=item2ad4b3f666:g:o7sAAOSwaFJdfvrI

[Bruce Pennington]

Austus,

I agree with Steve on the intermingling of the brass-aoi and iron-round tsubas. Fuller has a chart showing this, and blades in-hand verify it. My Tokyo (Kokura) stamped 95, ser # 92605, has the brass tsuba. It was myth, begun by early speculation about the iron tsubas, that they were late-war production.

 

A little more on the stamps, Ron - the "stacked cannonballs" was used by the Kokura Arseanl who oversaw Type 95 production of both the Tokyo 1st and the Nagoya Arsenals up to 1942ish. You'll know which one by the smaller inspection mark, the middle of the 3, and/or the mark on the blade. When the Kokura oversight was cancelled, you'll see Tokyo 1st (star) or Nagoya (circular symbol) in place of the cannonballs.

 

I also wanted to comment on the maker's stamp, commonly called the "Ichi". Steve's idea of it representing the Tokyo 1st Arsenal (because Ichi is Japanese for 1), is one of the ideas about this stamp. But unless Steve has some corroboration for this, I'll posit the other theory - that this comes from the Kobe sword company. The owner's name was 神戸 一幸 or Kobe Ikko. Two of the unknowns, the "K" and the "一", in my mind, are possibly from the same shop. The "K" from "Kobe" was seen on the initial 95s, then the "一" from 一幸 showed up for the latter run. I think it's just too coincidental that the first "letter" of the owner's names, one english the other Japanese, are the unknowns.

[Austus]

Thanks, Steve and Bruce, for answering my dumb question. Might not have asked if the handle had not been compromised. Still learning; and this is a great place to do it.

 

Congratulations, Ron, on the nice sword and wonderful wife.  How long you been a Smith?

 

When I look at a Type 95, I see a no-nonsense Warrior sword that was ready for cold or wet or muddy combat. Your blade looks really good, didn't see any damage. Think I might start looking for one like it.  

[Shamsy]

The Ichi theory wasn't mine, Bruce. I actually can't remember where I read it, but probably in a discussion here.

 

As to which theory I believe? I actually have no idea frankly. A simple check of the serial number range of Ichi and Kobe though shows that Kobe were low tens of thousands, Ichi are higher, so I agree that is possible there was a transition. I need to check more though, as I have a pointlessly small sample to check for Ichi on hand. Regarding Kobe though, the company name I have recorded is Kobe Shoten Co Ltd. I'm not sure I see much sense in changing to a stamp featuring a character that does not make up part of the company name? To my mind, that would be like Microsoft changing it's logo to a large G. I suppose you could counter by saying it's a Japanese character (more nationalism?), but considering the use of English letters, numbers and language continues through the war, I'm not convinced of that.

 

To discuss further! (and I'll check samples of Ichi numbers when I'm able).

[Dave R]

 Just a nerdy comment here... the Japanese refer to  "English" numbers and letters as "Romaji" a convenient way of expressing Japanese words in an internationally comprehensible form. It's not English!    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Japanese

[Shamsy]

Thanks Dave for letting me know. The hardest part will be remembering...

[Smee78]

Thank you everybody for the wealth of information that has been shared. Brian thanks for the markings explanation, and I like your 2nd theory about where the stamps came from, it make sense to me.

 

Austus, I've been a smith all my life, its my last name lol!

[Dave R]

 Nerdy thing no.2,

    China also uses Roman letters and numbers, though they have their own system  Hanyu Pinyin! The problem with Kanji and other ideographs and ideograms is that they represent ideas and items independent of language. They are also not very flexible, so writing "carburettor" for example would have to wait for an officially recognised character to be invented. One of the main uses for Pinyin is for teaching Chinese to non Mandarin speakers.

 

I suspect that the use in a factory is to do with the ready availability of stamps and dies, and the convenience of only needing 10 numbers and 26 letters, instead of 20,000 characters. The simplicity of form for Romaji and Pinyin would also be a great help in stamp and die making..

[Smee78]

Thanks Dave for your "nerdy" imputs. I appreciate  it.

[Smee78]

So now that I have a sword, what is the best way to care for it? I saw a few different recommendiations about sewing machiene oil and cloths like a micro fiber cloth to wipe it down to keep i clean. So what are the best preservation practices for a sword like these?

[Shamsy]

95s are extremely easy to care for. Out of direct light, wear cotton gloves to handle, away from humidity or use desiccants and once every few months, a very light oil on the blade if necessary.

 

The main issue with 95s is paint loss. This happens when old paint is mixed with all the mess on human hands. The blade is very hardy, but just keep it clean. I don't need to oil my 95s, due to the extremely dry air, so I just put on a really fine coat of oil every 6 months. I use gun oil, which does a great job, though it has a slight odour.

[Smee78]

Thanks Steve for the information. I will apply what I have learned.