Lost in school

[Kurikata]

Hi Tosogu experts,

 

I would like to have you views on this tsuba's school. Is it Kyo Sukashi, Higo, Tosa Myochin ?

 

Thank you

 

 

[lotus]

Dimensions?

[MauroP]

Can't decide between Kyō-sukashi and Akasaka

[lonely panet]

Great design Bruno. Higo would be my guess or myochin

[FlorianB]

IMHO Kyo-sukashi could be excluded because they always reproduced the same crane design.

This one is a later piece, I’ve seen a similar one but can't remember where so I have to research my books first.

Florian

[Kurikata]

Dimesions are: 7cm × 6,5 cm (ie 2 3/4 inch × 2 1/3 inch)

[kissakai]

I thought the 'apparent' groove inside the mimi could be a pointer but as yet I can not find an example

[vajo]

From the iron and work, it looks more Kanshiro Nishigaki to me. 

 

 

Akasaka and Kyo-Sukashi looks total different to me.

[Martin]

My guess is Akasaka.

The have also performed Tsuba with that crane design. 

I saw that pattern of tagane marks on later generation Akasaka pieces which is if I remember also an attribution point.

[Kurikata]

Martin,

 

it is said that seppa-dai form is a kantei point. I excluded akasaka school which is supposed to have a peak form at the top (and not rounded like mine) as Mauro exemple can show....

[Curran]

 peak form at the top (and not rounded like mine) as Mauro exemple can show...

Peak form at top is early Akasaka.

I too thought mid Akasaka. I like the tsuba.

[Martin]

Martin,

 

it is said that seppa-dai form is a kantei point. I excluded akasaka school which is supposed to have a peak form at the top (and not rounded like mine) as Mauro exemple can show....

 

You are right - it is not peaked - it ends in a beak 

[FlorianB]

Found this in a book about the Lundgren Collection:

 

Akasaka, middle to late Edo period.
Not exactly the same but note the particular form of the head similar to Yours.

Florian

[christianmalterre]

the topic Tsuba does not look to have any age dear Gentlemen.

 

this looks like a amatheurish done work to me...

 

least me here, i do not flipp onto it- to say it honest.

 

comparing it with the Lundgren one is even worse!

( have you ever seen the Lundgren one ? it got exhibited several times in the NBTHK European section meetings in the 90´s ! )

 

Christian

[Brian]

Christian, you mean the one in the 1st post?
I see nothing modern there, iron looks good. Happy to be proven wrong, but there are lots of decent indicators. Likely even had a shakudo spacer in the ana.
Not sure why you would think this one modern.
 

[Curran]

Lundgren Book attributions were also conservative.

If that book says mid to late Akasaka, then it is probably 'early' middle Akasaka.

[FlorianB]

Christian,

I can’t see any reason to get upset - I just pointed out the similarities.

BTW I don’t think the Tsuba in question is bad. It’s a younger one, maybe a little bit ornamental but interesting.

Florian

[Pete Klein]

Akasaka 1st Tadatoki = 4th gen Akasaka.  I could also make an argument for 2nd gen Tadamasa.

[christianmalterre]

everybody to be happy with his or hers attribution and fullfillment!

 

i just personelly would not at all !;  be happy! ( and this is just all i wrote about!)

 

Christian

[Martin]

Christian,

I don´t think anybody asked for a personal taste here... So why make this Tsuba bad?

Taste is very personal and Bruno asked for a possible attribution to a school - nothing more. 

 

I met people who proudly presented their recent purchases and were completely upset after other people talked their objects bad (although only their taste was different and the object completely ok)...

 

I do not see any junk here, sorry.

[christianmalterre]

Ja! Martin,

 

das ist vollkommen Richtig!

 

aber! ich kann doch beim besten Willen kein Akasaka Tsuba mit einem dahergelaufenem Shosu Stück vergleichen!

 

Und Du weisst selbst, wo die Grenzen liegen!

 

( those who may want to translate- will do it)

 

Christian

 

( Liebe Grüße! )

[FlorianB]

Christian,

It was simply the only Tsuba I found showing this peculiar bent head/neck similar to Bruno’s Tsuba. That’s all.

Puts the depiction of this particular Akasaka the researched one on the same level (or vice versa)? I don’t think so.

 

Sorry, but I still can’t see Your point.

Florian

[SAS]

Me either.....

[Kurikata]

So as a conclusion, trends provide 3 directions:

1-modern fake tsuba ==》 no school

2- Higo school (Kanshiro?)
3- Akasaka (either Tadatoki 4th gen. or Tadamasa 2nd gen.)

After some pictures provided privately by Sebastien (Gunome on NMB), I'll tend to think this tsuba beeing Akasaka.

Thank you all of you (even Christian ) for your interest.

have a nice week end all of you!

[Brian]

Bruno,

Viewing all the comments posted, the consensus is 2 or 3..likely 3.

You can't always let one opinion change the entire opinion of an item. Seems most find it ok.

[Kurikata]

Brian,

 

thank you for your kind comment and so happy to have you playing this very difficult role as a moderator. Hopefully the NMB can rely on you to keep on having a community respecting all points of views.

[Leporello]

To me this is neither Higo, nor Akasaka, but a later Tosa Myochin piece because of the colour, the fine and smooth surface, the form of the seppa dai and the elegant and precise workmanship ... what do I know!

[Kurikata]

Thanks Thomas. There are so many different opinions from high valued experts in this forum that the only solution will consist in having NBTHK validation. I do not pretend NBTHK knows more than NMB members but the certificate is generally considered as a strong clue.