Chinese made guntos

[PacificRim]

Just saw these photos on a gunto website in China, the quality of replicas is getting a lot better.

[PacificRim]

Photos attached

[PNSSHOGUN]

The best replicas were the Hanwei ones, these still look crude.

[ROKUJURO]

Shiny is not better per se. Even if the quality was indeed the same it would not be an equivalent to an authentic item of history. And still, look at the false wrapping technique of the TSUKA-ITO. 

P.S. No plural 's' on Japanese nouns! 

[16k]

As good as they ,ay become, they’ll never be the real deal, but I salute the effort. People who can’t afford one can still quench their thirst. So long as it isn’t sold as the real Mc Coy.

[vajo]

https://www.swordsofnorthshire.com/image/data/000r/12502.jpg

This is not bad made, but for the price you can buy a real one 

https://www.swordsofnorthshire.com/ww2-type-98-shin-gunto-Japanese-officer-samurai-sword-clay-tempered-1095-steel-katana

[IJASWORDS]

Holy crap Batman, they could fool most people with the detail. 

[Bazza]

Quite some years ago I had a call from a "newbie" local collector who had 25 swords.  I asked how long he had been collecting and he replied two years.  The alarm bells rang loud.  When I went to see his collection he had 25 Chinese copies...  I never heard from him again.

 

Much later I was visiting an antique car collector in another state who had a collection of 15 Japanese swords.  It was my sad duty to tell him they were all Chinese crappers.  The twist in the story is the friend he had invited to visit to show his single sword for opinion.  It narked the car man no end when his mate had a genuine, signed  WW2 Shingunto in good condition...

 

Sadly this state of affaires is only going to get worse and it steepens the learning curve for anyone beginning this great interest.

 

BaZZa.

[PNSSHOGUN]

In coming years the Komonjo gimei will be the new fakes catching collectors out the most.

[Bruce Pennington]

Both Alex' and Chis' examples are WAY above the usuall fakes we see. It's a real shame. And John's concern is real, too. His source in Japan is really cranking out some gimei.

[PacificRim]

Don’t leave showa22 out ????

[Brian]

Showa22's stuff is real, and sometimes quite nice. Aside from polishing issues, he doesn't sell fakes or illegally exported/produced swords.

[PNSSHOGUN]

At worst Showa22 has had mixed fittings, amateur polishes and sometimes gimei (same source as komonjo I imagine). Otherwise nothing too heinous, especially compared to samuraimonkey, now that shyster is a total fraud.

[vajo]

John hit me or not i bought from this samuraimonkey (and the name is program) a real ishizuke screw for one of my gendaitos. I paid $49 for it. A crazy thing i know, but i hate it to let swords in a uncomplete condition. And i know that he destroys other pieces into parts. 

[16k]

so you were the other one!

[Dave R]

 Some time ago the question arose as to what a Shin-Gunto cost in real terms, given questions like inflation and the cheaper real cost of labour back then.

 It took a bit of research, but in current money they cost an officer in the IJA around £800, or $1047, and there were still bottlenecks due to price controls and inflation making the official cost unrealistic... The Rinji Seishiki was the result of attempts to get costs down.

The blade is only part of the story, The metal mounts need a lot of hand finishing, the tsuka needs to be hand cut in Honoki to hold the nakago properly, and the Ito-maki is another time consuming job. It generally takes me four hours of concentrated work, and I can see why the Rinji has a different wrap. As for the metal saya and a wooden liner............

 

  The point is, that a good accurate copy is going to cost the same! 

[16k]

Speaking about repros and copper handles, check this out!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Set-Military-Copper-Fitting-Guard-Tsuba-For-Japanese-Army-NCO-Sword-Katana/273890585361?hash=item3fc526ab11:g:RWsAAOSwprpdBPMH

[vajo]

Is say this JP. Yes it is good made. But the cherry bloosoms are lumpy made. But for a replica very good.

[Bruce Pennington]

Stamps are all wrong, thank goodness! Did you see the statement in the item description: “Material: carbon”?

[16k]

Yes, I saw that. I guess the color and patina are just superficial and would wear out over time.

[PNSSHOGUN]

  On 12/4/2019 at 1:43 PM, Dave R said:

 Some time ago the question arose as to what a Shin-Gunto cost in real terms, given questions like inflation and the cheaper real cost of labour back then.

 It took a bit of research, but in current money they cost an officer in the IJA around £800, or $1047, and there were still bottlenecks due to price controls and inflation making the official cost unrealistic... The Rinji Seishiki was the result of attempts to get costs down.

The blade is only part of the story, The metal mounts need a lot of hand finishing, the tsuka needs to be hand cut in Honoki to hold the nakago properly, and the Ito-maki is another time consuming job. It generally takes me four hours of concentrated work, and I can see why the Rinji has a different wrap. As for the metal saya and a wooden liner............

 

  The point is, that a good accurate copy is going to cost the same! 

Oddly enough that is what the Hanwei replicas sold for, obviously they cost less to make but the result was above anything else made so far.

[Dave R]

  On 12/4/2019 at 9:17 PM, PNSSHOGUN said:

Oddly enough that is what the Hanwei replicas sold for, obviously they cost less to make but the result was above anything else made so far.

 

 You don't see them for sale now though do you. I wonder if despite the shortcuts and economies they were still too expensive to produce,,, or simply at that price unable to compete with the real thing.