Imperial Nihonto information

[Adrian I]

Dear community,

 

So glad to find this forum, I spent the last two days reading through topics and posts. Great content!

I have just purchased my first nihonto in an auction and I am eager to find more about this art piece. Unfortunately in Romania we do not have any specialists in Japanese swords so I rely on you to help me with some info if possible.

 

What I know from the auction house is the approximate manufacturing date 1927, possible by Minamoto Yoshichika as imperial sword forged on the occasion of the coronation of Emperor Hirohito. 

This piece is more "art katana style" so it would make sense that is not meant for use but more for display purposes...

 

Any comments or info is much appreciated!

[Ken-Hawaii]

Hi, & welcome to the forum. Please sign with your first name, & check in over at http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/27284-new-member-introductions/ & let us know something about you, & why you're interested in Nihonto.

 

You have a very nice blade, but it's not what I collect, & I know nothing about the smith. There are lots of others who will know plenty.

[Adrian I]

Thank you, Ken!

Can someone please help with translation of the writing on the blade?

I found here an article with a similar sword in design https://www.google.ro/amp/s/Japan-forward.com/as-sign-of-goodwill-president-putin-returns-swords-to-Japan/amp/

[16k]

Probably a Mino Seki sword, but I’ll let better people judge.

[Grey Doffin]

Minamoto Yoshichika Kore wo Saku.  Hawleys has him working in 1912.

Grey

[Geraint]

Hi Adrian.

 

At this stage your sword appears to be about right for the period.  Unfortunately the sword in your link is quite another story.  While the mounts appear superficially similar and they are both tachi mounts, they are of a different type and though both  may have been made for the coronation they are of two very different qualities. Your sword is Imperial only in the sense that it may have been worn in the presence of the Emperor. It would be helpful if you could give us some close ups of the hilt fittings and the scabbard hangers as the are not typical for this type of sword.

 

Looking forward to seeing them.

 

All the best.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Lovely presentation Tachi by a very well regarded Taisho smith.

[Nobody]

I found a real coronation tachi made by Minamoto Yoshichika here.

Ref. http://www.sword-auction.jp/en/content/as17331刀%EF%BC%9A源良近%EF%BC%88御大典の太刀-katana-minamoto-yoshichika

 

I suspect that your blade was originally made as a katana, not a tachi.

The signature on your katana is chiseled as a katana mei. The position of the mekugi-ana is too close to habaki as a tachi.

 

 

● The above link does not properly work when it is copied here.  

[Peter Bleed]

My bet is ON this blade. In another 100 years I bet this will be understood as a significant contribution to understanding of early 20th century sword making. By that time, the "Gendai-to era" will be completely  recognized as as yet another stage of Nipponto history. People will debate about the quality of sword making at that time. Sides will be hotly debated and I suspect that this sword will be submitted to the Juyo shinsa. (I agree with Moriyama-san. It will NOT  make the grade - - at least initially.) I think this swords is a real and pure document of how sword making operated in the the 1920s.

Peter

[Jacques]

Takanoha yasuri are not those usually used by Yoshichika... Red flag ?

[16k]

Takanoha yasuri are not those usually used by Yoshichika... Red flag ?

That was my point too, but everyone else seems to think it’s the real deal, so...

[Adrian I]

Thank you all for your comments and info! 

I have made some more pictures of the fittings, as requested.

Will make also detailed pictures of the blade 

 

 

[Nobody]

I also think the blade is questionable.

 

These pictures show the real quality of a coronation tachi made by Minamoto Yoshichika.

https://i.imgur.com/FwDRReK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Xem8CWr.jpg

[PNSSHOGUN]

Takanoha yasuri are not those usually used by Yoshichika... Red flag ?

You're absolutely right, I have not seen a Shodai or Nidai Yoshichika using those before. The finishing of the Nakago Jiri is also not consistent. Looking closer at the Mei it makes me concerned this is one of the "Komonjo" Gimei.

[Adrian I]

 If most of you think the blade is fake, I can make a complaint to the auction house, all purchases are protected and assured that they are real as described.

I have also attached a photo to the auction house page with the product description... 

 

 

[Ray Singer]

Note the plugged mekugi-ana. This looks like a Seki Showato which has been given a gimei of Yoshichika.

[16k]

Yup, Sekii Showato was my guess too.

 

I’ve just noticed it comes with an Oshigata. Can you post it? Do the blade and Oshigata match?

[Adrian I]

it is now clear to me that I paid too much for this sword ... yet, in your opinion, does it have any value?

[Ray Singer]

A Seki Showato with fake signature has little if any value.

[16k]

I don’t know how much you paid for it, but IF we are right, and for that, I’d like to see more of the blade, then the blade has no value. The koshirae is still quite nice so may be worth something, but I am no specialist.

[PNSSHOGUN]

If possible do seek a refund, this will only give you headaches down the road.

[Brian]

Moriyama san gave a good analysis. Those points alone are grounds to hesitate. And yes..one ana has been closed off, so this is not the original mount.

[Adrian I]

Just spoke to the auction house.... wants me to provide the opinion of an expert to specify that the sword is not as described.

Can you recommend anyone ... please. In Romania we do not have anyone specialised in this area... (

[Adrian I]

I don’t know how much you paid for it, but IF we are right, and for that, I’d like to see more of the blade, then the blade has no value. The koshirae is still quite nice so may be worth something, but I am no specialist.

I payed a little more than 4000 Euro, with the auction house fee

[Ray Singer]

I suggest paying Markus Sesko to document an assessment of the mei against legitimate examples of Minamoto Yoshichika. This will cost $150, however you will be directing the request to someone whose credentials as a researcher are indisputable.  

 

https://markussesko.com/2017/05/17/important-update-to-services-offered/

 

Speaking frankly, having spent 4,000+ Euro on this sword is an absolute disaster. Investing $150 to have the fake signature documented is money well spent if it allows you to cancel the purchase. 

[Adrian I]

Thank you, Ray! It is indeed a good suggestion and wil contact Markus for an oppinion. ????

[raynor]

Not a good advertisement for the auction house this. Hopefully it works out in the end.

[Tom Darling]

The shira-saya is well made. Good luck in getting your return. Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

[Peter Bleed]

Well, gee.

When this conversation was a free-wheeling discussion, I was happy to say - "Well, it might be all right." I certainly suggested that there were some ref flags with this sword. And my comments drew out some interesting discussion. In my own defense I will say that I am sure that a variety of kinds, styles, and qualities were produced for the 1927 coronation. Not all of these were "top of the line." I would also add (again in my own defense...) that if this is the sort of koshirae begin ginned up by modern fakers I'd be surprised and scared. My experience with Yoshichika blades is limited, but I have to believe that he was capable of producing a wide range of blades that met diverse demands.

Now, it turns out there is a need for expert advice. And in that case, I respectfully withdraw all of my comments. I am not an expert on this kind of sword. And i apologize for entering into what I understood was collectors' chit-chat.

Peter

[16k]

No need to apologize, Peter, the fact that this particular sword may be false or real in no way puts into question the validity and truth of your comments. You are right about your statements!