Purchased a Type 19 Army Sword Last Night

[MacTheWhopper]

Hello Everyone,

After receiving feedback in my last thread and receiving the info on how to help spot a fake, I had decided to put my feet in the water a purchase a sword

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW-II-Japanese-OFFICERS-SWORD-VET-P-U/202818913397?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

I think the condition of it is pretty good and the price seems pretty reasonable for it but what do you guys think? 

[ChrisW]

Hello Mac!

 

Please be sure to put your name in your signature line under account settings so we know how to address you.

 

As for the sword, it is not counted as a nihonto as it is a non-traditionally made blade and likely has a machine-etched hamon which will scratch off. A true nihonto will have a hamon that is the result of the smithing process that is created and revealed after water-quenching and an arduous polishing process. The price you paid is fairly typical for a dress saber of its condition, which is fairly decent. If you want to buy a true nihonto, you should deal with the people here as they are fair and will sell you something worth the money! My recommendation would be Ray, Ed, Luis, or Harry. You should be VERY careful of buying on eBay as its very easy to buy a fake there. If you really want to get into nihonto, you should soak up all you can on this site as well as look for all the books that members here can recommend. Avoid paying the knowledge price by studying books instead of buying costly (and possibly fake) blades.

 

However, this one is not fake, it is just not made traditionally and lacks a true hamon. It is unlikely to be traditional; however, I am not an expert and that slim possibility exists. But I feel confident other members would give the same opinion. The sword is decorative and would not have been considered useful in combat if alternatives were available. Anyways, welcome to the NMB, you'll meet a ton of friendly folk here!

[MacTheWhopper]

Thank you, Chris. I would definitely like to get into buying nicer Japanese swords as long as i am able to swing the purchase. I haven't really checked the classifieds on here but that is something that I would like to do.  Budget is a big thing for me so it may be a bit before I can get into the nice made swords (this is assuming the traditional ones are quite a bit most expensive). I also really appreciate the welcome and enjoy learning about swords.

[PietroParis]

 

 The sword is decorative and would not have been considered useful in combat if alternatives were available.

 

Yet another of my beginner questions: were these "decorative" dress swords actually sharpened?

 

Cheers, Pietro

[ChrisW]

Yes and no. Sharpened for war? Probably not as it removes the decorative etched hamon. Sharpened by amateurs who want a 'sharp' blade? Yes. Rather commonly.

 

They came from the factory with an edge, but it was likely not considered usable and it was not razor sharp/capable of holding said edge. These parade sabers were designed just for that: use in parades and ceremonial functions.

 

@Mac  You can get a fairly nice study piece for a reasonable price. I wouldn't expect something extremely fancy but you can get a fair deal here. There are a few nice deals right now if I recall correctly; but the usual go-to for beginners should be getting books and studying up first.

[16k]

Thank you, Chris. I would definitely like to get into buying nicer Japanese swords as long as i am able to swing the purchase. I haven't really checked the classifieds on here but that is something that I would like to do.  Budget is a big thing for me so it may be a bit before I can get into the nice made swords (this is assuming the traditional ones are quite a bit most expensive). I also really appreciate the welcome and enjoy learning about swords.

Budget is a problem many of us share. But if you are a beginner, I know that when I was one, I wanted to buy a sword. I did! Though I don’t regret it now because, hey, that was my first, in terms of quality or anything, it was a total mistake!

 

So, sometimes, having a small budget, especially at the beginning, is, in fact a good thing. Use the money you can invest in books. The cheaper ones at first, but trust me, there is nothing more important than learning in that field. There are too many pitfalls to fall into if you don’t.

 

Cool thing is, as Ray says in his awesome videos, this is easier to learn today than it was when I started. There are books in English on almost every subject. They may not be enough as you progress, but are a great way to start, learn and avoid mistakes!

 

Welcome aboard!

[Bruce Pennington]

I will admit that I am no expert on Type 19s, and will go back and read what Dawson said about these. But at the time of their making, late 1800s, they were the only officer blades. Wasn't it the use of these in the Sino-Japanese war of the 1920s that brought about the revival of true samurai-styled swords for the military? They were breaking in the Chinese winters due to brutal cold, plus they were bouncing off the heavily wrapped Chinese soldiers. So, they were being used as weapons in battle.

 

Kenny, can you tell if yours is chromed, or is that just the shine from lighting? If chromed, I'd say clearly it was a "dress" sword (I don't know when they experimented with chrome, if it was that early, maybe not). But if plain steel, then it was made as a weapon.

[lonely panet]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/13294-type-19-kyu-gunto-dress-swords-i-love-them/?hl=%2Btype+%2Bdress+%2Bswords

 

Here is a topic I started some years ago, before I had young kids hahsha

[PNSSHOGUN]

These swords are very splendid:

 

[Dave R]

 Looking at the photo's I would say you did OK. Shin Gunto go for a lot more,  and this style don't fetch as much..... But just as a decent condition late 19th-early 20th century military officers sword of any nation, this was something of a bargain.

 

 Probably helped by the fact that most people looking for a Japanese officers sword would pass over it, as they were looking for a "Samurai sword".

 

As you can see in the pic' below, Japanese officers carried a variety of patterns of sword during the war.

[MacTheWhopper]

Thank you everyone for the info. Im learning so much. A book on sword would be great to have. I liked this sword as it was pretty cheap to buy. 

 

I will admit that I am no expert on Type 19s, and will go back and read what Dawson said about these. But at the time of their making, late 1800s, they were the only officer blades. Wasn't it the use of these in the Sino-Japanese war of the 1920s that brought about the revival of true samurai-styled swords for the military? They were breaking in the Chinese winters due to brutal cold, plus they were bouncing off the heavily wrapped Chinese soldiers. So, they were being used as weapons in battle.

Kenny, can you tell if yours is chromed, or is that just the shine from lighting? If chromed, I'd say clearly it was a "dress" sword (I don't know when they experimented with chrome, if it was that early, maybe not). But if plain steel, then it was made as a weapon.

 

I cannot tell yet, the sword was just shipped out today so I should have the answer to that in a couple of days

[Bruce Pennington]

These 2 are a good place to start:

https://www.amazon.com/Swords-Imperial-Japan-1868-1945/dp/0971912726