Bugyotsuji Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 Hate to throw myself upon your generosity, but can anyone figure out the date here? The registration paper says 文久口亥八月 The Kantei says 文久己亥八月 but this does not correspond with any of the three years of Bunkyu...? What are we really seeing? Quote
uwe Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 What might fit is: 文久癸亥八月......?! Admittedly hard to imagine that the character in question is indeed Mizunoto Quote
Peter Bleed Posted November 14, 2019 Report Posted November 14, 2019 a challenge, but what else could it be??? P 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 14, 2019 Author Report Posted November 14, 2019 I agree, but a suspended or undropped penny is somehow unnerving. it's always nice to 'see' whatever it is Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 15, 2019 Author Report Posted November 15, 2019 Surprisingly, one Japanese friend thinks the NBTHK Kantei Sho itself is mistaken, and the registration Torokusho is conversely more correct in choosing to go with 口, or unreadable. Quote
SteveM Posted November 15, 2019 Report Posted November 15, 2019 I agree with the above. 囗 (unreadable) feels like the best choice, so the tokorosho feels more accurate than the kantei sho. I don't see how it could be 己. It should be 癸 as everyone mentions, but... somehow, its very far from 癸. It kind of looks like 以 or 北 or... 地 (none of which make sense) 1 Quote
uwe Posted November 15, 2019 Report Posted November 15, 2019 “囗” seems offset to the right. A way, zodiacs appearing sometimes. But that doesn’t help much..... 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 15, 2019 Author Report Posted November 15, 2019 Since that two-character year combination was pronounced Kigai I was wondering if the smith may have used a short kana notation for 癸 (Ki)... to save on the cold chiseling. 2 Quote
Nobody Posted November 15, 2019 Report Posted November 15, 2019 I might find some hints, but I still cannot see the whole picture. This 2019 is the year of 己亥 (Tsuchinoto-I) in the sexagenary cycle. I found that the year is also 地亥 (Earth-Boar) in Tibetan calendar. Ref. https://www.mmba.jp/archives/24682 Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_calendar So, it is probable that the chiseled year on the tang is 地亥. However, a question remains. 癸 (Mizunoto) does not seem to correspond to 地 (Earth). 3 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 15, 2019 Author Report Posted November 15, 2019 Another shot. Is it possible that this is 3, in 草書体 Soshotai i.e. the third year of Bunkyu? Is that why it is set to the right, I wonder? http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0355.jpg Quote
uwe Posted November 15, 2019 Report Posted November 15, 2019 I already thought so, but then forgot to dig after.... Here some other (alternative) writings: 参 = 3 (弎, 叁, 叄, ???? ).....not really a match, I think! Quote
k morita Posted November 16, 2019 Report Posted November 16, 2019 Hi, Japan isn't Tibet- Buddhism country. The date says 文久四亥八月 (Bunkyu 4th year,8th month).(1864). But,Bunkyu 4 was until the 2nd month.Did this sword smith forget that a name of the year changed? 3 Quote
uwe Posted November 16, 2019 Report Posted November 16, 2019 Followed by “元治” with “甲子”......so he simply made a mistake?.... No reliance on the old sword makers...... Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 16, 2019 Author Report Posted November 16, 2019 So, if 4, then one of these? http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0369.jpg 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 17, 2019 Author Report Posted November 17, 2019 On 11/17/2019 at 1:12 AM, Bugyotsuji said: Many thanks, Morita San. Always something more to learn, but an enjoyable process. This morning I was discussing this with someone knowledgeable who said it was quite common for smiths to cut the outline of their Mei in advance and choose either 二月or 八月, even though it might have been a year earlier. He said he has seen many examples of this phenomenon. Many thanks, Morita San. Always something more to learn, but an enjoyable process. This morning I was discussing this with someone knowledgeable who said it was quite common for smiths to cut the outline of their Mei in advance and choose either 二月or 八月, even though it might have been a year earlier. He said he has seen many examples of this phenomenon. But still the Eto is wrong... Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 25, 2019 Author Report Posted November 25, 2019 Thank you, everyone. Yesterday I took this along to the local block meeting of the NBTHK. When the meeting finished several people gathered round to express their thoughts. No definitive answer was found, but it was suggested that I should contact NBTHK and ask them why they wrote 己 there. Quote
Jacques Posted November 25, 2019 Report Posted November 25, 2019 .Remenber the meaning of ni gatsu or hachi gatsu guys it seems they are more esoteric purpose than accurate. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 25, 2019 Author Report Posted November 25, 2019 There is a wakizashi by the same smith signed nigatsu Bunkyu 4, but the 四 is different from the one above kindly read by Mr Morita.Photos down the bottom ofhttp://winners-auction.jp/productDetail/57359 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Posted February 7, 2020 Finally had a phone call. This Bakumatsu Yoroidoshi is coming back from the Togishi and I should be collecting it tomorrow evening at the NBTHK meeting. Made by 貞秀 Sadahide of the Dewa Gassan school, disciple of Gassan Sadayoshi. He seems to have had several names or titles including Unzenshi, Sugimoto, Konoshin Sadahide; I think the same smith may be listed twice, as two different people SAD 328 & 329 on the linked JSS.org database on the NMB. (?) This blade was made for someone called Oshin, which may be the painter Kano Oshin, 1842-1907, who had once worked in the Ministry of War, (Hyobusho) 1870-1872. Interesting story of the later school and swordsmiths here, despite some editing problems: https://www.nihonto.com/the-dewa-gassan-school-%E5%87%BA%E7%BE%BD%E6%9C%88%E5%B1%B1%E7%B3%BB/ Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Posted February 9, 2020 Very pleased with the job he has done. More sashikomi than hadori, but the nie-deki has come up beautifully, and those distracting grazes and rust spots have gone. He has managed to keep the thick kasane appearance of the yoroi-doshi. Stupidly I mentioned maybe having a Shirasaya made for it, and got some blastback from above. "Why didn't you get the shirasaya made first? You do realize, don't you, that most shirasaya-shi, shirogane-shi etc., do not like working with newly-polished blades?" Well, I do now. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Posted February 9, 2020 Just found out that Unzenshi Sadahidé spent the first half of his life in Kyoto, and devoted himself to forging swords for the Kinno no Shishi. 勤皇の志士. Quote
Peter Bleed Posted February 9, 2020 Report Posted February 9, 2020 Great thread, very informative! Thank you all. Peter Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Posted February 10, 2020 Hmmm... the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, Brian. It just so happens that I do have some secret ‘before shots’ of the nasty bits, but the quality of my photos is nowhere near the standards of your site. And to catch how it looks now would be asking me to up my game considerably. Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Posted February 10, 2020 Scuff marks, and some overall shots. 2 Quote
Greg F Posted February 10, 2020 Report Posted February 10, 2020 Hi Piers I like your tanto in the "before shots" I reckon you should give "after shots" a go. Greg 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Posted February 10, 2020 OK, I just spent an interesting hour struggling with lighting etc., so here are a few test results. Photos in the pipeline... 1 Quote
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