Waterdragon Tsuba- information please

[Brian]

Not forced to step in yet...but getting there.
Indeed, Japanese dragons have 3 toes. Mostly. And just like all "rules" they are made to be broken.
Personally, I don't doubt the original tsuba is Japanese, as is the decoration. So there we have a 4 toed Japanese dragon. Maybe styled on a Chinese theme?
Ford...any input on this from your side?

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Brian, yes, It seems self evident here, this is 100% Japanese in origin. The type of dragon is not an issue as far as I can see. As you imply, 'rules' are only limitations to the unimaginative. The sinuous rain-dragon is a common enough feature of Japanese art to make it a native of those islands. Both Hokusai and Kawanabe Kyosai created images in that style,

 

Perhaps one of the reasons it was popular was precisely because it offers lots of room for creativity and whimsy in the way it is rendered. It's also worth noting that towards the end of the Edo period, as the economic and political situation became ever more uncertain there developed a taste for the bizarre and unconventional. A 4 fingered dragon might have been a subtle way of showing two fingers to the ruling establishment. 

 

I think that in almost all cases these sorts of 'rules' that collectors refer to are created long after the time the objects were made. And unless we actually can study every single example any such rules will obviously be based on an average of sorts. There will always be exceptions. 

[Ford Hallam]

The ceiling of the Tenryu-ji Temple in Kyoto. Painted in 1899

 

late Edo Japanese woodblock print.  The 'double mountain' printer's mark is familiar but off hand I can remember who it is. They also printed Kuniyoshi's work.

 

I'm sure a morning wasted trawling the internet will yield more such exceptions. 

 

[Stephen]

More info on the fish...

 

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/shachihoko.html

[vajo]

In chinese there is said, a far dragon will lost his toes.

 

So chinese dragons (lung, long) have 5 toes. Korean dragons (yong) 4 toes and Japanese dragons (ryu) 3.

And if it flys to germany he will lost 2 legs too (because ours have only two). 

 

It depends on the story which is showed. Japanese artist make all 3 types of dragons.

 

Chinese Dragon 5 toes

 

Korean Dragon 4 toes

 

Japanese Dragon 3 toes

 

Overall - it is impossible to say the dragon is chinese, korean or Japanese. They made all kind of dragons in Japanese art.

[Pete Klein]

Ford:  http://www.tenryuji.com/en/unryuzu/index.html  ???

[roger dundas]

Once again I would like to say thanks for all the comments re my tsuba, particularky Ford wh gave the opinion of the probable/possible artisan -maker

Tsuchiya Yasuchika 1.

Much obliged to you all who then went on to have some fun and debate about dragon toes.

 

Roger Dundas