luisboni Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 I have been doing some research on the star stamp and found that it usually above the smith signature. Nevertheless this one is way up. What do you guys think? Genuine or fake ? 1 Quote
Ganko Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 It would have been added after the sword was polished, not right. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Is it Luis? Please go to your settings and add at least a first name, forum rules, thanks! It is a peculiar star, isn't it! It actually looks like it was hot-stamped into the steel, rather than a cold stamp. There are some guys who are quite knowledgable on the RJT operation, which is where you'll see lots of star stamped blades. Maybe one of them will take a look at it. If you search "star stamp" or "RJT" on the forum, you should be able to find them, and maybe shoot them a PM. Do you you the smith's name on this one? Was he an RJT smith? If not, that would invalidate the star. Quote
vajo Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Bruce, it is obvious fake. The star looks very crude and not hit in the blade with a sharp stamp. It looks like a cookie shape for christmas cakes. Quote
16k Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Looks weirdly placed. That said, the inscriptions look well done and the nakago well finished, so might still be a nice sword. 1 Quote
vajo Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 The place is ok JP. Is see a lot of swords with a stamp in that area. 1 Quote
16k Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Really? I thought they were place on the yasurime... 1 Quote
Brian Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Doing this backwards. Check out the sword. Is it a well made Gendaito? Then research the smith. Was he a RJT?If so...it's likely ok. 3 Quote
vajo Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Really? I thought they were place on the yasurime... Look here JP http://www.schmucker-info.net/#5._(Taguchi)_Masatsugu_%E6%AD%A3%E6%AC%A1 and here: http://www.schmucker-info.net/#7._(Chikugo)_Morimitsu_%E7%9B%9B_%E5%85%89 Luisbono could you make a better picture of the stamp? 3 Quote
16k Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Yes indeed! Thanks Chris, tonight I’ll lay in bed a little less stupid than when I got up this morning! 3 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Japaneseswordindex has Kiyotsugu listed in the RJT page: The following are known blades with star stamps by Jumei Tosho swordsmiths. Miyairi Shohei (Akihira) Niigata Akihisa Hiragawa Akimitsu Kasuga Seizou Tokoro Harumoto Chikuzen (no) Kuni ju Muto Hidehiro Hidemine Chikuzen ju Kajihara Hiromitsu Ikusa no Kajitsu Hisakuni Yoshu Seiunshi Hisatsugu Noshu ju Kuriyama Kaneaki (star + Kitae stamp) Kaneharu Noshu ju Kanehide (star + Seki stamp) Seki ju Kanehide Noshu ju Kanehisa (Kojima) Kanemichi (star +Showa stamp) Noshu Seki ju Kanemichi Takeuchi Kanemitsu Seki Kanemoto Kanenaga (star +Seki stamp) Noshu ju Kanenobu Noshu Seki ju Kanenori Kaneshige (star + Seki stamp) Noshu ju (Morita) Kaneshige Seki ju Kanetomo (star + Seki stamp) Noshu ju (Murayama) Kanetoshi (star + Seki stamp) Gunma Imae Kanetsugu Joshu ju Imai Kanetsugu Seki ju Kanetsugu Tsushima Kanetsugu Kawai Kaneyoshi Inoue Katsukiyo Tokyo Dai Ichi Rikugun Zoheisho Katsunobu Yoshida Katsunori Sanjo ju Fujiwara Kazunori (may also be read as Ichinori) Oki Kuni ju Kikumitsu (star + tai stamp) Senshu Kiyokane Choshu ju Kiyokune Izumo (no) Kuni Kiyomitsu Choshu ju Kiyotsugu <<<<<<<<----------- Hizen ju Kunimitsu Mori Kunitoshi Noshu ju Kunitoshi (same as Mori Kunitoshi) Sendai Kunitsugu 4 Quote
luisboni Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Posted October 29, 2019 Thanks for the replies. Here is another pic. - Luis Boni Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Showa22 pictures don't bode well for the authenticity. 2 Quote
Shamsy Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 It doesn't look like a good stamp, but the star stamps are not homogenous so who knows. 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 Showa22 pictures don't bode well for the authenticity. John, or Luis, is that the source of this blade - Showa22? If so, that adds another layer of doubt. It is true that many of the RJT smiths made both gendaito and showato. So it IS possible this was a showato, non-star, blade that someone post-war put the star to increase the value. I still say though, the stamp looks hot-stamped the way the metal splooshes (that official swordmith term!) around the stamp. I doubt any of our favorite shysters can hot-stamp a blade. Quote
luisboni Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Posted October 29, 2019 Yes. It is. I was wondering about that star stamp. It doesn't look anything likes the ones i have seen in my research; I agree that It may have been placed afterwards. Quote
Ganko Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 I believe the sword to be a genuine gendaito, but have my doubts as to the originality of the stamp. Quote
reeder Posted October 30, 2019 Report Posted October 30, 2019 It looks like a gendaito by an RJT smith to me. Dated, more than 2 character mei so it certainly appears to meet the requirements to have received a star stamp. I have a type 3 with these same type of plain copper fuchi and kashira that has a star stamped Hiromasa blade. Iirc I’ve seen one or 2 more examples of these fittings with star stamped blades (I believe another Hiromasa and a Kanehide). They’re not very common compared to the other type 3 mounts. 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 30, 2019 Report Posted October 30, 2019 When we started studying the kikusui "stamp" as a group, we realized it wasn't a stamp at all, but each one was handcrafted. Even stamps like the Seki and some Type 95 stamps have variations. I wouldn't be surprised if we found, upon further comparison to many examples, that the Star has plenty of variations too. I could be wrong, Luis. You are the one studying them. Fill us in on your progress as you go. I would enjoy learning more on them. Quote
Shamsy Posted October 30, 2019 Report Posted October 30, 2019 No, you're right Bruce. Exactly what I said above 1 Quote
Ed Harbulak Posted October 31, 2019 Report Posted October 31, 2019 There were several inspectors examining and inspecting blades make by RJT smiths. It's reasonable to think each inspector would have had his own individual stamp and preferred place to apply the stamp. Variations should therefore be expected in both the stamps and location where the stamp was applied. 1 Quote
vajo Posted October 31, 2019 Report Posted October 31, 2019 I thought the charge was bringing to the arsenal and stamped there. So the stamp would be allways the same? 1 Quote
Ed Harbulak Posted October 31, 2019 Report Posted October 31, 2019 No Chris, the inspectors traveled in person to the sword smith's shop, inspected the blades and stamped them there. My understand is that there were several inspectors covering different parts of the country, where ever there was an RJT smith located. The inspected and stamped blades were then sent to various arsenals to be mounted. Chris Bowen has written quite a bit about how it was done. There might even be some details in one of the older NMB discussions. 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted November 1, 2019 Report Posted November 1, 2019 Luis, Don't know if you have this one already, but it's on a blade witht the mei: "Iwami no Kuni no ju Yoshikiyo saku," and the date was March 1945. There is a "Tai" stamp above the star, from the Izumo Seiko steel works. Located In Shimane. Located here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/6628-iwami-yoshikoyo-gendaito/ Quote
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