Iyetoki oshigata

[John A Stuart]

Hi All, On SFI there is a fellow looking for oshigata of some smiths Iyetoki. His nakago pic is compelling as we await better ones. If this is the Harima Yamato smith, one of three, it may be an amazing find if legitimate, coming from the earliest days. I know of no oshigata for Iyetoki. Anyone? John

[Grey Doffin]

No Iyetoki made his way into my index; sorry.

Grey

[John A Stuart]

Thanks Grey, A very early group. late tenth, early eleventh century. This could be interesting. John

[Brian]

Here is the link: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=91520

Interesting looking nakago, although it looks a bit young to be the Iyetoki. Also has had what looks to be a proper polish, so you would think that at some stage someone would have found out what it was. However I wish him luck, would be a great find.

 

Brian

[Stephen]

i emaild him for pix if and when they come in ill post something we see i hope.

[James]

Here's a high res photo of the nakago.

 

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb13 ... yetoki.jpg

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

The nakago seems have been artificially oldered.

[paulb]

Hi Jacques,

you may well be right that the nakago has been aged artificially but what can you see in the image that leads you to that conclusion?

I think this is one of those difficult areas (like re-tempering) that if the person knows what they are doing is very difficult to see, especially from pictures. So it is always useful to understand what you are seeing that convinces you this is wrong?

thanks

Paulb

[Stephen]

guess i should have read the board before i spent ten min croping and changing to jpg. im not a member on the swordforum would someone post it there for him.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

  paulb said:

Hi Jacques,

you may well be right that the nakago has been aged artificially but what can you see in the image that leads you to that conclusion?

I think this is one of those difficult areas (like re-tempering) that if the person knows what they are doing is very difficult to see, especially from pictures. So it is always useful to understand what you are seeing that convinces you this is wrong?

thanks

Paulb

 

It is only a thought,

First, the nakago suggests a kamakura blade but if you look at the machi they are well prominent. That means this blade was not often polished, odd for a Kamakura one.

 

Second, look at the mei location, if the third nakago ana was really used, the mei had been under the habaki.

 

I have recently seen a Mino Kanefusa (23th) with this kind of nakago.

[John A Stuart]

I must confess the better pic of the nakago does not fill me with confidence. The patina feels contrived as per Jacques. Cynical as I am, I would not bet on this being a shinshinto revival piece artificially aged. I was caught on one like that before and without Bob Benson's help would have been blissfully unaware. I seem to recall a conversation with Paul Martin that when there is a rough texture and suspicious pitting on the nakago it may indicate fire damage. The nakago seems bent for more sori, not uncommon to obtain original sugata on drastically polished swords. Of course, one pic makes for a lot of guesswork. John

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Guess an update is useful.

As the original poster on SFI seems not registered here, I'll quote him :

 

Quoting Joe Guzman (begins) :

 

hello,

I submitted this sword to Robert Benson in July 2007 NBTHK Shinsa Tachi Iyetoki 79.7cm Old sword kamakura or older but will not issue certificate because of Saiba, (Retemper) and shows signs of Mizukage.

This sword was never in any fire.

Mr. Benson told me that the Boshi point saw broken off and was reshape and retemper this was common on old sword especially when this sword shows signs of cut marks lines from fighting

no kirikomi.

 

All I'm asking for is for someone out there that can assist me in a rubbing just to know what Era this sword was made.

 

... (ends).

 

I wonder which other opinion he's asking for if NBTHK's and Bob's ones are not enough...

[Brian]

Very true Carlo.

If Bob Benson says it has lost its kissaki and is saiha, and the shinsa says it is saiha and has lost its kissaki, you have to wonder who you can turn to next, or do you go down in experience levels until someone tells you what you want to hear?

I'm pretty sure an idea of age was given there too..so what more info can he get?

 

Brian