trygve Posted August 29, 2008 Report Posted August 29, 2008 Hello! A while back i bought a rusty katana by a smith called Kiyotsuna. The blade is under restoration and I am looking for reference on this school/smith. I found this for sale on a Japanese website and wonder if someone who know Japanese could help translate. I have tried web translator sites, but they translate it into babble. http://tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00007.html paragraph to translate: ç‘å¾Œä¹…ç•™ç±³ä½æ¸…ç¶± 嘉永四年二月日 形状 : é› ï¼š 刃文 : 帽å : 茎 : éŽ¬é€ ã€åºµæ£Ÿã€èº«å¹…・é‡ã尋常ã«ã—ã¦ã€å…ƒå…ˆã®å¹…差ややã¤ãã€åりã¤ãã€ä¸é‹’ã‚„ã‚„å»¶ã³ã‚‹ã€‚ å°æ¿ç›®è‚Œã‚ˆãã¤ã¿ã€ã€åœ°æ²¸ã¤ãã€åœ°æ™¯å…¥ã‚Šã€ç„¡åœ°é¢¨ãªè‚Œåˆã„を呈ã™ã€‚ å°äº’ã®ç›®ã‚’主調ã«å°ä¸å風ã®åˆƒäº¤ã˜ã‚Šã€è¶³ãƒ»è‘‰å…¥ã‚Šã€åŒ‚å‹ã¡ã«å°æ²¸ã¤ãã€éƒ¨åˆ†çš„ã«è’ã‚ã®æ²¸ã¨ãªã‚Šã€ç ‚æµã—ã‹ã‹ã‚‹ã€‚ ç„¼ãæ·±ãã€ç›´ãèª¿ã«æµ…ãã®ãŸã‚Œè¾¼ã¿ã€å°ä¸¸å°–りã”ã“ã‚ã¨ãªã‚Šã€å…ˆæŽƒãã‹ã‘る。 生ã¶ã€å…ˆåˆƒä¸Šã‚Šæ —å°»ã€é‘¢ç›®å¤§ç‹é•ã„化粧ã¤ãã€ç›®é‡˜å”一。 説明 : åé‘‘ã«ã€é’木五郎。清広åã€‚é•·é‹æ–Žç¶±ä¿Šé–€ã€‚江戸ã«ã¦ã‚‚打ã¤ã€‚弘化ã“ã‚。ç‘後。ã¨ã‚る。 作風ã¯å‚™å‰ä¼ã‚’主ã«ã—ã¦ã€åŒ‚出æ¥ã®ä¸åã«äº’ã®ç›®äº¤ã˜ã‚Šã®åˆƒæ–‡ã‚’焼ãã€é›ã¯å°æ¿ç›®ãŒã¤ã¾ã£ã¦ç„¡åœ°é¢¨ã¨ãªã‚‹ã€‚ ã“ã®åˆ€ã¯ã€å¸«ï¼šé•·é‹æ–Žç¶±ä¿Šã‚†ãšã‚Šã®å‚™å‰ä¼ã®åˆƒæ–‡ã‚’焼ã„ãŸå…¸åž‹ä½œã§ã‚る。 ã¾ãŸã€é™¸è»è»åˆ€æ‹µãŒé™„帯ã—ã¦ã„ã‚‹ãŒã€è»åˆ€æ‹µã«ç´ã‚られãŸåˆ€å‰£ã¯ã‚µãƒ¼ãƒ™ãƒ«ã®å®šå¯¸ã§ã‚ã‚‹2å°º1寸å‰å¾Œã«ç£¨ä¸Šã’られãŸã‚‚ã®ã‚‚多ã„ãŒã€æœ¬ä½œã¯ç”Ÿã¶èŒŽã®çŠ¶æ…‹ã§ã‚ã‚‹ã“ã¨ãŒå¥½ã¾ã—ã„。 thanks! trygve Quote
Nobody Posted August 30, 2008 Report Posted August 30, 2008 Hi, Firstly, you should notice that only “Kiyotsuna†cannot specify the only one smith. trygve said: éŽ¬é€ ã€åºµæ£Ÿã€èº«å¹…・é‡ã尋常ã«ã—ã¦ã€å…ƒå…ˆã®å¹…差ややã¤ãã€åりã¤ãã€ä¸é‹’ã‚„ã‚„å»¶ã³ã‚‹ã€‚ å°æ¿ç›®è‚Œã‚ˆãã¤ã¿ã€ã€åœ°æ²¸ã¤ãã€åœ°æ™¯å…¥ã‚Šã€ç„¡åœ°é¢¨ãªè‚Œåˆã„を呈ã™ã€‚ å°äº’ã®ç›®ã‚’主調ã«å°ä¸å風ã®åˆƒäº¤ã˜ã‚Šã€è¶³ãƒ»è‘‰å…¥ã‚Šã€åŒ‚å‹ã¡ã«å°æ²¸ã¤ãã€éƒ¨åˆ†çš„ã«è’ã‚ã®æ²¸ã¨ãªã‚Šã€ç ‚æµã—ã‹ã‹ã‚‹ã€‚ ç„¼ãæ·±ãã€ç›´ãèª¿ã«æµ…ãã®ãŸã‚Œè¾¼ã¿ã€å°ä¸¸å°–りã”ã“ã‚ã¨ãªã‚Šã€å…ˆæŽƒãã‹ã‘る。 生ã¶ã€å…ˆåˆƒä¸Šã‚Šæ —å°»ã€é‘¢ç›®å¤§ç‹é•ã„化粧ã¤ãã€ç›®é‡˜å”一。 The above section describes shape, kitae, hamon, boshi, and nakago of the sword. Each description is hard to translate into English for me. trygve said: åé‘‘ã«ã€é’木五郎。清広åã€‚é•·é‹æ–Žç¶±ä¿Šé–€ã€‚江戸ã«ã¦ã‚‚打ã¤ã€‚弘化ã“ã‚。ç‘後。ã¨ã‚る。 作風ã¯å‚™å‰ä¼ã‚’主ã«ã—ã¦ã€åŒ‚出æ¥ã®ä¸åã«äº’ã®ç›®äº¤ã˜ã‚Šã®åˆƒæ–‡ã‚’焼ãã€é›ã¯å°æ¿ç›®ãŒã¤ã¾ã£ã¦ç„¡åœ°é¢¨ã¨ãªã‚‹ã€‚ ã“ã®åˆ€ã¯ã€å¸«ï¼šé•·é‹æ–Žç¶±ä¿Šã‚†ãšã‚Šã®å‚™å‰ä¼ã®åˆƒæ–‡ã‚’焼ã„ãŸå…¸åž‹ä½œã§ã‚る。 ã¾ãŸã€é™¸è»è»åˆ€æ‹µãŒé™„帯ã—ã¦ã„ã‚‹ãŒã€è»åˆ€æ‹µã«ç´ã‚られãŸåˆ€å‰£ã¯ã‚µãƒ¼ãƒ™ãƒ«ã®å®šå¯¸ã§ã‚ã‚‹2å°º1寸å‰å¾Œã«ç£¨ä¸Šã’られãŸã‚‚ã®ã‚‚多ã„ãŒã€æœ¬ä½œã¯ç”Ÿã¶èŒŽã®çŠ¶æ…‹ã§ã‚ã‚‹ã“ã¨ãŒå¥½ã¾ã—ã„。 Loosely as follows; According to Meikan (= Nihonto Meikan; 日本刀銘鑑); - name: Aoki Goro - art name: Seikoshi (reading?) - school: Chounsai Tsunatoshi - location: Edo, Chikugo - era: Koka Style; - Bizen den, nioi-deki, choji mixed with gunome, ko-itame tsumaru This sword is a typical work of Bezen-den from his teacher Chounsai Tsunatoshi. Though the sword is equipped with a militaly mounting, it is not shortened and that is desirable. Quote
trygve Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Posted August 30, 2008 Once again thanks for a helping hand, Nobody!!! You have helped me translate part of this sword's mei before -ref. http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=854 The smith in question is the same Chikugo Kiyotsuna as the mei is identical with the sword on the Japanese website. This is the only rererance I have found where I can compare workmanship. The hamon looks very alike but since the photos on the Japanese website are not very detailed, I was interested in the description on the sword and info on the smith/school. Thanks to Nobody, I once again have something to work on when it comes to do research of this sword. Regards trygve Quote
Yoshii Posted August 31, 2008 Report Posted August 31, 2008 Hello, Although i'm not a professional translator of Japanese, i try to translate text and put the information into little booklets of the different schools of kaji. this is what I can make of it; ç‘å¾Œä¹…ç•™ç±³ä½æ¸…ç¶± Chikugo Kurume ju Kiyotsuna 嘉永四年二月日 Kaei 4th year 2nd month a day 1851 形状 :sugata é› ï¼škitae 刃文 :hamon 帽å :boshi 茎 :nakago éŽ¬é€ ã€åºµæ£Ÿã€èº«å¹…・é‡ã尋常ã«ã—ã¦ã€å…ƒå…ˆã®å¹…差ややã¤ãã€åりã¤ãã€ä¸é‹’ã‚„ã‚„å»¶ã³ã‚‹ã€‚ shinogi zukuri, ihori mune, chu kissaki nobiru å°æ¿ç›®è‚Œã‚ˆãã¤ã¿ã€ã€åœ°æ²¸ã¤ãã€åœ°æ™¯å…¥ã‚Šã€ç„¡åœ°é¢¨ãªè‚Œåˆã„を呈ã™ã€‚ ko itame hada, ji nie, chikei, muji hada style å°äº’ã®ç›®ã‚’主調ã«å°ä¸å風ã®åˆƒäº¤ã˜ã‚Šã€è¶³ãƒ»è‘‰å…¥ã‚Šã€åŒ‚å‹ã¡ã«å°æ²¸ã¤ãã€éƒ¨åˆ†çš„ã«è’ã‚ã®æ²¸ã¨ãªã‚Šã€ç ‚æµã—ã‹ã‹ã‚‹ã€‚ ko gunome ? ko choji, ashi . yo, nioi gachi ko nie deki, ara nie ç„¼ãæ·±ãã€ç›´ãèª¿ã«æµ…ãã®ãŸã‚Œè¾¼ã¿ã€å°ä¸¸å°–りã”ã“ã‚ã¨ãªã‚Šã€å…ˆæŽƒãã‹ã‘る。 yaki fukashi, suguha awai notare komi, ko maru togari 生ã¶ã€å…ˆåˆƒä¸Šã‚Šæ —å°»ã€é‘¢ç›®å¤§ç‹é•ã„化粧ã¤ãã€ç›®é‡˜å”一。 ubu, kuri jiri saki, o sujikai yasurime, 1 mekugi ana 説明 : åé‘‘ã«ã€é’木五郎。清広åã€‚é•·é‹æ–Žç¶±ä¿Šé–€ã€‚江戸ã«ã¦ã‚‚打ã¤ã€‚弘化ã“ã‚。ç‘後。ã¨ã‚る。 Aoki goro. Student of Kiyohiro. School of Chounsai Tsunatoshi, Koka periode, Chikugo kuni 作風ã¯å‚™å‰ä¼ã‚’主ã«ã—ã¦ã€åŒ‚出æ¥ã®ä¸åã«äº’ã®ç›®äº¤ã˜ã‚Šã®åˆƒæ–‡ã‚’焼ãã€é›ã¯å°æ¿ç›®ãŒã¤ã¾ã£ã¦ç„¡åœ°é¢¨ã¨ãªã‚‹ã€‚ ã“ã®åˆ€ã¯ã€å¸«ï¼šé•·é‹æ–Žç¶±ä¿Šã‚†ãšã‚Šã®å‚™å‰ä¼ã®åˆƒæ–‡ã‚’焼ã„ãŸå…¸åž‹ä½œã§ã‚る。 Chounsai Tsunatoshi’s hamon is in Bizen den style ã¾ãŸã€é™¸è»è»åˆ€æ‹µãŒé™„帯ã—ã¦ã„ã‚‹ãŒã€è»åˆ€æ‹µã«ç´ã‚られãŸåˆ€å‰£ã¯ã‚µãƒ¼ãƒ™ãƒ«ã®å®šå¯¸ã§ã‚ã‚‹2å°º1寸å‰å¾Œã«ç£¨ä¸Šã’られãŸã‚‚ã®ã‚‚多ã„ãŒã€æœ¬ä½œã¯ç”Ÿã¶èŒŽã®çŠ¶æ…‹ã§ã‚ã‚‹ã“ã¨ãŒå¥½ã¾ã—ã„。 2 shaku 1 sun suriage I'm sorry that i'm not capable enough to translate the complete text. I hope this will help you a little bit. Aoki is his familyname and goro his personal name Greetings Jos Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted August 31, 2008 Report Posted August 31, 2008 Moriyama san has already done the last part for us, but: ã¾ãŸã€é™¸è»è»åˆ€æ‹µãŒé™„帯ã—ã¦ã„ã‚‹ãŒã€ Also, it comes with army furnishings, but è»åˆ€æ‹µã«ç´ã‚られãŸåˆ€å‰£ã¯ã‚µãƒ¼ãƒ™ãƒ«ã®å®šå¯¸ã§ã‚ã‚‹2å°º1寸å‰å¾Œã«ç£¨ä¸Šã’られãŸã‚‚ã®ã‚‚多ã„ãŒã€ whereas many swords in army scabbards underwent suriage to fit the standard saber measurements of 2 shaku 1 sun, or thereabouts, 本作ã¯ç”Ÿã¶èŒŽã®çŠ¶æ…‹ã§ã‚ã‚‹ã“ã¨ãŒå¥½ã¾ã—ã„。 this one is good because the tang is in a state of ubu nakago (untouched, as originally created) Quote
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