terminus Posted September 25, 2019 Report Posted September 25, 2019 I saw this kozuka attributed to Goto Ichijo just searching Google and liked the pleasing double coiled dragon design on it. I'm quite new and an amateur but to my untrained eyes the quality of work, design and mei look like Ichijo. Perhaps any of the experts in the field could give their opinion on this kozuka? And also what does the design mean? it's the first time I've seen a black and gold dragon coiled up like this, is there some backstory to this type of theme? Any information or opinions is highly appreciated. Quote
Gunome Posted September 25, 2019 Report Posted September 25, 2019 Hello, Very nice kozuka. I like it ! The dragon looks nicely carved. No idea if shoshin or gimei but the mei is well done Quote
Ganko Posted September 25, 2019 Report Posted September 25, 2019 Really nice work, excellent piece, but I wouldn't count on the mei. The examples in the Kinko Meikan are close but? Quote
terminus Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Posted September 25, 2019 Here is an example of an authentic Ichijo mei on a Kozuka in the photo below. Frankly, to me the carving and strokes look the same and done with the same force and precession (though I’m still a novice). However this mei’s last character does seem to be entirely different than the one in this photo. Btw, does this double dragon Kozuka’s mei have a year or age of when it was made? Quote
Ganko Posted September 25, 2019 Report Posted September 25, 2019 Wow, looking at the 12 examples in the Kinko Meikan I would dismiss that one as gimei. I guess his mei varies considerably. Your first example has better correlation. Quote
Pete Klein Posted September 25, 2019 Report Posted September 25, 2019 Tony - I am curious as to how you are certain the mei (red background) above are shoshin? Papers? Tom - please, what is the publish date of the Kinko Meikan you mention? Quote
terminus Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Posted September 25, 2019 Tony - I am curious as to how you are certain the mei (red background) above are shoshin? Papers? Tom - please, what is the publish date of the Kinko Meikan you mention? Not exactly the best source but I found those mei from this webpage: http://www.nihonto.us/GOTO%20ICHIJO%20FUTOKOROMONO.htm Additionally this one looks very much like the mei and it passed TH: Quote
Vermithrax16 Posted September 25, 2019 Report Posted September 25, 2019 This article by Darcy Brockbank will be a good read Tony Y: https://blog.yuhindo.com/ichijo-and-precision/ 1 Quote
terminus Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Posted September 25, 2019 This article by Darcy Brockbank will be a good read Tony Y: https://blog.yuhindo.com/ichijo-and-precision/ Yep read that one a few times before. Actually it's what got me interested in Ichijo in the first place. However I think right now that page is down? I can't access it for the moment. Quote
Vermithrax16 Posted September 26, 2019 Report Posted September 26, 2019 Showing up fine for me right now Tony, but sometimes different browsers etc can be an issue? Quote
Ganko Posted September 26, 2019 Report Posted September 26, 2019 Pete, the book I have is the "Shinsen Kinko Meikan" by Kenichi Sakubo 1993. Quote
terminus Posted September 26, 2019 Author Report Posted September 26, 2019 Showing up fine for me right now Tony, but sometimes different browsers etc can be an issue? Seems it was an internet issue. I can see it fine on my phone just not on company wifi. To me the mei of this kozuka looks shoshin, especially after seeing this example: But would be glad to have any other opinions. Quote
Pete Klein Posted September 26, 2019 Report Posted September 26, 2019 Tom - OK, that's a great book to have (and damn near impossible to find these days) as it is the updated version and also has some entries not found in the much larger Wakayama, 'Toso Kodogu Meiji Taikei'. The Wakayama text has 23 pages devoted to Ichijo with ~ three to five examples per page. Tony - I enlarged the image in the first post and it does compare to one of the examples in Wakayama along with the one immediately above but I see some issues with the flow of the carving being too rounded where Ichijo tended toward more angular changes in direction along with some other fine points. I am not saying it is gimei but I feel this is one of those 'really needs an NBTHK paper' examples. When it comes to big names you really need that back up. I've seen 'way' too many examples (most of which on Yahoo! Japan) of such items with wonderful custom boxes and hakogaki which were gimei. Caveat Emptor. 2 Quote
terminus Posted September 26, 2019 Author Report Posted September 26, 2019 Tom - OK, that's a great book to have (and damn near impossible to find these days) as it is the updated version and also has some entries not found in the much larger Wakayama, 'Toso Kodogu Meiji Taikei'. The Wakayama text has 23 pages devoted to Ichijo with ~ three to five examples per page. Tony - I enlarged the image in the first post and it does compare to one of the examples in Wakayama along with the one immediately above but I see some issues with the flow of the carving being too rounded where Ichijo tended toward more angular changes in direction along with some other fine points. I am not saying it is gimei but I feel this is one of those 'really needs an NBTHK paper' examples. When it comes to big names you really need that back up. I've seen 'way' too many examples (most of which on Yahoo! Japan) of such items with wonderful custom boxes and hakogaki which were gimei. Caveat Emptor. Thanks Pete. Very good analysis. Yea I agree, the mei is very good and extremely similar but perhaps just slightly more fluid than some Ichijo mei. Found out this piece was actually sent to Shinsa in the past and the result was Horyu. So I guess it still officially stands as a mystery. Quote
masakatsu Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 Thanks Pete. Very good analysis. Yea I agree, the mei is very good and extremely similar but perhaps just slightly more fluid than some Ichijo mei. Found out this piece was actually sent to Shinsa in the past and the result was Horyu. So I guess it still officially stands as a mystery. Yep, I liked this piece for a long time and after multiple attempts to contact the seller I was successful and got the Horyu answer also. I'd like to believe they are Ichijo, only time will tell. Love the subject matter, and here's another by his student: https://yuhindo.com/nakagawa-issho/ Either would look fantastic sitting next to this f/k set.. Quote
Pete Klein Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 Matt - which dealer site was that FK listed on? I can't remember. (this getting old gig is a pain)! Quote
masakatsu Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 Matt - which dealer site was that FK listed on? I can't remember. (this getting old gig is a pain)! Hi Pete, actually I bought this privately from a client of Darcy's... so it never hit his site. I'm pretty sure the previous owner had bought it from Aoi a few years back. Papered tokuho. You're not getting old, just more experienced... 3 Quote
Pete Klein Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 Yes, it probably was Aoi as I know it wasn't DB's. I remember that I really liked it but, as we all know there's always just so much money. You have an excellent FK! Quote
masakatsu Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 Yes, it probably was Aoi as I know it wasn't DB's. I remember that I really liked it but, as we all know there's always just so much money. You have an excellent FK! Thank you Pete, I like it quite a bit. I remembered seeing it on Aoi a few years ago also, and I remember really liking it at the time and then it was gone. Luckily Darcy seems to have a very wide reach and happened to know the owner when I talked to him about this set... the rest is history as they say. Quote
terminus Posted October 3, 2019 Author Report Posted October 3, 2019 Not exactly the best source but I found those mei from this webpage: http://www.nihonto.us/GOTO%20ICHIJO%20FUTOKOROMONO.htm Additionally this one looks very much like the mei and it passed TH: post-61-14196781411798.jpg Yeah! That one on Darcy’s site reminds me a lot of this kozuka’s coiled dragon theme. Could actually be a Goto Ichijo piece and would make a great set together. Quote
masakatsu Posted October 7, 2019 Report Posted October 7, 2019 Yeah! That one on Darcy’s site reminds me a lot of this kozuka’s coiled dragon theme. Could actually be a Goto Ichijo piece and would make a great set together. The link I sent for the mitokoromono is actually Nakagawa Issho, one of Ichijo's better students. On the listing Darcy also included a black and white photo of a similar Ichijo set that looks fantastic. Would love to see color pics, or better yet, see it in hand. Quote
Nikanoru Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 Did it reappear? This kozuka was on sale from Matsukaze on ebay, at around 7k or 9k usd, don't remember exactly. Then it disappeared, I asked the guys what happened, the answer was "it went for shinsa", no traces of this one since then. It was more than a year ago. Ichijo indeed did coiled dragons menuki in solid gold. Quote
masakatsu Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 Did it reappear? This kozuka was on sale from Matsukaze on ebay, at around 7k or 9k usd, don't remember exactly. Then it disappeared, I asked the guys what happened, the answer was "it went for shinsa", no traces of this one since then. It was more than a year ago. Ichijo indeed did coiled dragons menuki in solid gold. It has been here for quite some time: https://matsukazejapan.wordpress.com/2017/10/01/museum-grade-goto-ichijo-kozuka-19thc-Japanese-edo-antique-fitting-dragon-e176/ Came back from shinsa Horyu, not sure if it has been re-submitted or not. Haven't asked for about a year now. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.