Type 95 Gunto Worksheet

[BANGBANGSAN]

13 hours ago, Conway S said:

 

It looks legit, but perhaps the brass tsuba was a period parts swap.

 

[Conway S]

Thanks for the replies. The fuchi is my biggest concern given the crudeness of the stampings, especially the star. See link below. This seller once sold a Type 95 with a chrome plated saya! Too bad the listing is no longer available. I think it sold for $400+. 

 

Conway

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335018236514?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221115143614%26meid%3D3ba0606ed55f4389a8974365969bc310%26pid%3D101616%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D235185763278%26itm%3D335018236514%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2SignedOut&_trksid=p4375194.c101616.m5481&_trkparms=parentrq%3A74c20e5518a0a8cdcc779906ffffb4d0|pageci%3Aefe563b4-4e42-11ee-b2ef-9e9091001ca2|iid%3A1|vlpname%3Avlp_homepage 

[Conway S]

Hello Everyone, 

 

I am curious if the brass tsuba is correct for the Kobe series of Type 95s. The examples I have seen on the forum and in Dawson's Cyclopedia have the the black iron tsuba. Thanks in advance.

 

Conway

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

There are other guys that track these much more than I, but of the 4 I have on file, 2 have the aoi-shaped tsuba:

[Bruce Pennington]

With Ern's permission, I'm pasting a post he made on this Wehrmacht-awards Thread discussing certain aspects of the copper-handled version:

 

"These began production in 1937 and yours is from the final year of production 1938 where the bulk of these were produced before updating to the Aluminium handled version.
An ordnance order was issued during production which began to address issues being reported in the field, such as the loosening of the handle amongst several others.
These issues were addressed by the Arsenal in house, with all 'new' continued production and field returns which came in for repair to the arsenal as field repair units may not have been on hand.
The handle on this first pattern is only held on by the barrel nut and screw at the end of the pommel where the tassel ring is fitted.
The extra screw in the middle of the handle was part of the upgrade in the new Aluminium model being produced, and was an integral part of any Arsenal rework being performed as per the ordnance order.

Now for a bit of a background, the copper handles are 'asymmetrical' in design. The imitation wrap simulates what would be seen in real life, so each side differs, especially at the base where it mates up to the locking mechanism and guard. One side is actually not providing as much support, and over time loosens and begins to rattle (your 2nd picture).
The introduction of the screw in the middle of the handle addresses this issue, of course the handle is removed and a hole is drilled into the tang of the blade to accommodate this.
With the handle being asymmetrical, the hole in the handle drills into the center of the imitation wrap on one side, and in the top of the bridge of the wrap on the other. The result is that the screw protrudes into the hand of the user on one side and it is recessed on the other (see your first two pictures).
The screws are made of soft copper/brass and have a tendency to break.
The same moulds were used to produce handles in the Aluminium model, for a production run of about 3000 more swords, before new moulds were utilised to produce 'symmetrical' handles where both sides appear the same with the imitation wrap. The mounting position of the new screw was moved a few mm to utilise the gaps of the wrap where the screw being fitted would mount and be slightly recessed on both sides of the handle.

Looking at the scabbard, i can see that the retention screw for the throat is missing. Ask him to provide pictures of the scabbard as well.
The 'normal' scabbard for this first pattern is fitted with a brass plug only, the more common drag comb is seen on all subsequent models.
However, the ordnance order actually addressed this issue as well, and specified changes to the scabbard drag, so to utilise existing stocks of scabbards, drag combs were brazed on to existing brass plug scabbards for a short time.
All subsequent production had no brass, but had the metal drag comb fitted instead.
You may have either:
a scabbard which is the correct type for this first pattern (brass plug for a drag)
a scabbard of the correct type with a drag comb fitted (only know of two such in existance), or
a scabbard from later production no brass but has drag comb fitted as standard construction.
In either scenario, you have the wrong scabbard throat with no retention screw for it.

The extra numbers on the blade above the collar appear in a short sequence of production.
Some people thought they were army supply/issue numbers linked to specific soldiers, as was the case with German SA or SS daggers for instance.
A materials shortage began to be felt at this time and swords for officers were in shortage. The IJA implemented a rental plan for officers to whom a sword was considered as essential kit, the option to buy outright was also in place. The sword in topic here was the type 95 NCO Arsenal issue. Still no records have been discovered linking officers to swords via serial numbers or 'issue' numbers.

It is believed by some collectors and researchers that they are rework numbers of some sort, however, it is still not conclusive as to exactly what they represent.

Many here may remember Nick Komiya who made many informative posts in this forum some years back, Swords were not his primary field of interest but we eventually wore him down after numerous requests, and what he uncovered in the Japanese archives was pure gold to all sword collectors worldwide.
This type 95 model sword, the first pattern being the copper handled version WAS a complete replacement for the previous type 32 model (single handed saber) coming in two versions (short and long). This streamlined supply and production for the war effort in Japan.
Nick disclosed that an order had been placed to convert some 1000 or so swords from type 32 configuration to the new type 95 configuration, this was a complete rework so that in the end the converted swords were practically indistinguishable from the new production run of the type 95's.

Also the extra numbers (2546 in this case) are only found on the last 1000 or so Copper handled type 95's, not on any of the next Aluminium handled versions which followed. There is no discernable pattern to the numbers in relation to the stamped serial numbers on the blade, they appear to be completely random. In addition, the first half of the stampings are also found with a preceding ホ stamp. Some have been found on the reverse of the blade, others only seen when the habaki (brass collar) is removed.
As this all occurred at about the same time, it is my personal opinion that there may be some connection here with these numbers and the re work order in place. There is no concrete evidence to support this yet and further research needs to be done.

I hope this sheds some light on these for you, and am happy to try and answer any other questions if i can.

Cheers
Stegel"
 

[Bruce Pennington]

An interesting Suya Shoten 95, serial 49547, in officer Type 98 saya.  Note the latch has been removed.  Sold with papers from the Pvt Johnson, who brought it back from New Guinea, discharge papers dated 1944.

 

Possibly an officer purchase of an NCO blade?

@Shamsy @Stegel  What year would 49547 have been made?

 

JB Military auction

 

[vajo]

Judging the lenght of the saya from the picture i would say the sword didn't fit in complete. 

The top latch is missing. 

[Bruce Pennington]

17 hours ago, vajo said:

Judging the lenght of the saya from the picture i would say the sword didn't fit in complete. 

The top latch is missing. 

It's the last photo in the group.

 

 

And the missing latch is one of the very things that would have been intentional if an officer bought the sword and had it fitted in an officer saya.  He would have removed the latch.

[vajo]

Bruce the sword didn't fit in that saya. I think it was an replacement or something else. I don't belive that an officer would pay for such a thing. 

 

 

I bet that when you remove the wood inside the says the tip is on the metal of the end of the saya.

 

The paper says nothing only some war trophy. 

 

Is see there is a detailed picture.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

You may be right, Chris. We only know that the program was available to officers, but, as of yet, have not seen a verifiable example. Just always on the lookout for one.

[Kiipu]

On 11/10/2023 at 1:46 PM, vajo said:

Judging the length of the saya from the picture I would say the sword didn't fit in complete. 

 

Chris, the advertisement already states the scabbard is too short.

 

Quote

Worn finish, rolled steel Type 93 officer’s scabbard with good brass and copper mounts fits blade well but is 0.5cm too short for blade length.

X

[Bruce Pennington]

Still doesn't rule out the options.  It may add weight to the option that the saya was added post-war, but not solid proof.

 

I own a Type 32 Otsu, that is in a Type 19 Kyugunto saya.  Immediate impression would be "post war put-together."  But the saya is too short, and the end is split open which allows the kissaki to poke through when the blade is forced in all the way.  Was it Bubba?  Or was it someone in the field making something work out of necessity?

 

 

These kinds of issues cannot be answered, but they present possibilities that each guy must weigh in the scales for themselves.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's a real doozie!  Type 95, by the "Ichi" or Kobe company, with what I'd say is a custom made wooden saya intended for leather cover (now missing).  I initially thought it was aluminum, but on closer examination it is really white painted wood.  Wear & tear appear appropriate for the age of the gunto.  Serial number 150603 for those tracking the Ichi/Kobe numbers.  Found on this http://Centurion Auction.  @Stegel

 

[Conway S]

I saw this Kobe with serial number 37,730. The fuchi is stamped with the “一” stamp. I am wondering if others have seen the Ichi stamp mixed in on the initial run of Kobe swords. It was my understanding the "K" is found on the swords in the 37K-39K range. Or is it more likely the fuchi was swapped out at some point and this example is just a coincidence?

 

WWII IMPERIAL Japanese SHIN GUNTO KATANA SWORD 

 

Conway

[Conway S]

[Kiipu]

You are right, it is in the K-range and 37730 is within the serial number range used by this maker.  I am unaware of these K & 一 markings being intermixed.

@Stegel

[Bruce Pennington]

Might actually lend support to our idea that the 2 stamps are of the same shop, as this may have been a repaired gunto by Kobe.

[Stegel]

Good job taking notice of this Conway!

 

I second Kippu's comments that this is 'right' inside the Kobe serial number range, it is now the second of it's type (with brass tsuba) that has surfaced.

The serial number range before Kobe (37k-39k) is from Gifu, and Suya continues on after this range.

However, i'd be a bit cautious buying this sword personally.  If you are after a Kobe example, i'd pass on this one, regardless of the serial number.

 

Looking at the other pics from the Auction, i can see that the handle is different to all the other Kobe examples on file.

It has the final variation of the Symmetrical Aluminium handle as used by the Tokyo 1st Arsenal, this doesn't automatically exclude it as original though. This version had the left side menuki repositioned higher up towards the sarute by one cross in the ito wrap pattern.

Look at the pic below to see what i mean.

This pattern also appears sporadically in the lower serial number ranges, giving credence to the idea that these may have been repaired at some point.

 

I have only one on record with an Ichi fuchi in this serial number range, it is 39157, at the end of the Kobe serial number range.

It also had Brass tsuba, and this is the highest recorded number i have.

It is also a bit cleaner of an example than this one and appears to be a more honest or genuine in my opinion, see below.

 

Bruce you could be spot on with both comments as per repairs and the connection that Ichi and Kobe are of the same shop.

The 39157 example being the highest, may provide evidence of this. With Ichi taking over from Kobe, parts such as the fuchi may have been used when the original kobe fuchi's had run out. I believe this may have occured, otherwise they could both be examples of shop repairs which we know did happen.

[Conway S]

@Stegel Thank you for sharing that synopsis, it was very informative. It looks like the brass tsuba were a feature of the Ichi production runs. From doing a quick internet search I found examples of Ichi in 48K, 106K, 142K, and 143K ranges with brass tsuba and the later version tsuka. I didn't see any with the black iron tsuba.

 

I have a Kobe 37810 with the brass tsuba, but the correct early tsuka. I found another one 37815 and it has the iron tsuba. I suppose the brass may have been a period parts swap, but the patina matches and everything is tight like it's never been taken apart before. It has undamaged brass screws and not the black painted ones.

 

Conway

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 9/17/2019 at 4:33 PM, IJASWORDS said:

An original leather covered NCO.

Neil

 

Do you have photos of the whole scabbard?

 

 

[Kiipu]

30 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Do you have photos of the whole scabbard?

 

Some additional photographs of 80442 can be seen via the link below.

"custom Nco"

[BANGBANGSAN]

40 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

 

Some additional photographs of 80442 can be seen via the link below.

"custom Nco"

Thanks, Thomas!

[dpast32]

@>>> "SEEKING INFORMATION ON SERIES TYPE, ARSENAL, & RELATED DATA ON MY TYPE 95, Japanese NCO SWORD "

 

My Type 95, Japanese NCO Sword appears, at least to me, as an Aluminum Handle 3rd Variant, with thin type Iron Tsuba, Rear Handle Release Latch, Matching # Blade & Scabbard, with Single Screw / Bolt through Handle.

{ I will hopefully prepare a few Photographs for inclusion here, but I haven't prepared them as of yet, so please 'stay tuned'. } I have owned this Type 95 Japanese NCO Sword since about 1977 or so, & it remains in very nice condition, although exhibiting a degree of normal use, yet not abuse. I would deeply appreciate learning anything I might concerning this Sword's approximate, or exact date of manufacture, Arsenal & Series of manufacture, and or any other relevant details of its production, along with any additional data available ? I accept that Japanese Swords are not my primary area of expertise, nor even secondary, therefore I chops someone here much more knowledgeable than myself to enlighten me regarding this particular Type 95 Japanese NCO Issue Sword ? I THANK anyone & everyone who may assist me here, & will deeply appreciate whatever information you may share with me.

 

                Best regards,    Dom Pastore Jr.  /  'dpast32'

 

{ CONTACT AT:  dpast32@aol.com }

[Bruce Pennington]

Welcome Domenic! @dpast32

While we wait for photos, check out these free websites with tons of info on the Type 95:

 

Non-commissioned officers Gunto 1935 (Type 95 Guntō)/title> (ohmura-study.net)

造兵廠の標識 An Arsenal trademark and inspection mark (ohmura-study.net)

 

https://www.warrelic...o-sword-info-228172/

[dpast32]

Hello Bruce, & THANK YOU very much for your prompt & kind reply, it’s most appreciated ! I am pleased to report that I have located my Type 95 example’s photos, & will post them now without delay. Please be advised that they were apparently taken in less than ideal lighting conditions, thereby may not be the best for identification purposes. However, hopefully with your expertise we might be able to at least discern a few points of interest, along with its overall production date & or anything else of relevance. If I do need additional photos, please advise & I’ll try to get them posted within next few days, ok ? THANKS Bruce, I look forward to assessment !

 

{ P.S.: The Blade & Scabbard Throat both share  # 110808 }

 

    Best regards,  Dom P. 

 

[dpast32]

Well, I apologize here as I had initially intended for 22 photos to be posted, but  apparently exceeds my capability. I will have to judiciously choose which are most suited for identification purposes. Please stand by.

 

      Dom P.

[dpast32]

And here’s a couple more.

[dpast32]

Well, hopefully Gentlemen there’s enough here to make at least some determination of my example ? Any questions or additional information needed please just ask ! THANKS 

  

  Best,  Dom P.

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice 95 Dom!

It's a Tokyo 1st Arsenal blade, but with the steel fuchi, I don't know which shop made it.  @Kiipu or @Shamsy might know who was making them for Tokyo.

 

Is that color an off-white or a tan?  If white, it's one made for the winter/arctic ops.

[dpast32]

WOW, I truly appreciate that Bruce !! I assume we're referring to the Scabbard ? If so, it appears more like a light color silver, but with the top portion surrounding the Attachment Ring is black in color, & appears very well done, not like an 'Bubba paint job' if you know what I mean. Also, would you have an approximate date of production on my example ? I had always assumed it was of mid War, perhaps late 1942 - 1943 mfg, due primarily to the thin black iron tsuba ? Naturally, I differ to you for your assessment of its date ?

 

         Dom