Type 95 Gunto Worksheet

[IJASWORDS]

An original leather covered NCO.

[BANGBANGSAN]

This leather cover looks original with the sword.

 

[Kiipu]

An Australian collector from Victoria told me that Type 95 fuchi came in either brass, iron, or copper plated alloy.  Can anyone identify what material this fuchi is made of?  It is coming from a 神戸商店 made Type 95, serial number 68452東. Sorry about the maker's name, the translation is currently unknown as it is a last name that has like five pronuncitions!

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/Japanese-nco-sword-verification-676512/

[Bruce Pennington]

For easy reference, here's the fuchi he's linking to:

[Kiipu]

Here is some more information about 合名会社神戸商店.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-5?do=findComment&comment=98780

[Bruce Pennington]

Here is some more information about 合名会社神戸商店.[/size]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-5?do=findComment&comment=98780

But since it's in Japanese, there are very few of us who can profit from it. We could all use a name to call this contractor. I'll run this name and ad by Nick Komiya and see if he can break the code for us.

 

Thomas,

How is it that you've linked this name to the "Ichi" stamp? Was it through George Trotter's suggestion, or another source?

[Kiipu]

Deduction on my part.  Japanese wartime production records give the name as 神戸.  In 1942, Kokura Arsenal transferred this company to Tokyo 1st Army Arsenal supervision.  So, I am looking for a sword company that starts with 神戸 and is somewhere in the Tokyo area.  A few nights ago I was reading through the Arsenal Stamps. thread and there was the advertisement.  When I saw the address in the advertisement, I just about fell out of my chair!

 

Ohmura's website also speculates that this was the maker too.

http://ohmura-study.net/794.html

[Bruce Pennington]

After re-reading all this, I can see I've misunderstood. We are not talking about the "Ichi" stamp, you (Thomas) simply introduced a new topic about the manufacturer named "合名会社神戸商店". I re-read the post where George Trotter posted that ad from them and cannot find which gunto in the previous thread he was refering too.

 

The name was translated by Guy, at Warrelics, as "Kobe Shoten".

I confused the issue by thinking we were talking about the "Ichi" stamp. Kobe, as postulated by Ohmura, used the "K" stamp.

[Bruce Pennington]

So, we still have 2 mystery stamps on 95s, and one of them could have been the Minuzo stamp:

[BANGBANGSAN]

神户-Kobe,think about the 神户牛肉 Kobe Beef.

[BANGBANGSAN]

So, we still have 2 mystery stamps on 95s, and one of them could have been the Minuzo stamp:

20180529_114427.png20180603_215249.jpg

The first mark is 水- Water-Mizu

[BANGBANGSAN]

An Australian collector from Victoria told me that Type 95 fuchi came in either brass, iron, or copper plated alloy.  Can anyone identify what material this fuchi is made of?  It is coming from a 神戸商店 made Type 95, serial number 68452東. Sorry about the maker's name, the translation is currently unknown as it is a last name that has like five pronuncitions!

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/Japanese-nco-sword-verification-676512/

Thomas

This fuchi looks like copper plated alloy to me.

[Bruce Pennington]

The first mark is 水- Water-Mizu

Is that what the kanji means? That has a very suspicious resemblance to “Misuno”!!! Maybe we just figured out which stamp came from the Misuno company! Thanks Trystan!

[Kiipu]

I think I found the Mizuno company logo and inspection stamp but still have no serial number.  Does anyone know the complete name for this company? 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5999-arsenal-stamps/page-11?do=findComment&comment=219263

 

Mizuno stopped Type 95 production in 1942 because of some quality control issues.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/f216/short-development-history-type-95-gunto-676112-post1753234/#post1753234

 

Here are the characters for Mizuno as they appear in wartime documents. Mizuno is a Japanese surname with only one pronunciation according to Japanese Names by P. G. O'Neill.

水野

Edited September 19, 2019 by Kiipu

[Kiipu]

The first mark is 水- Water-Mizu

 

I agree as does Komiya san over at http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/f216/short-development-history-type-95-gunto-676112-post1753234/#post1753234!

You will see a supplier called Mizuno , who is not included in Stu W's thread. They only produced for a few months in 1942 before getting sacked. They had a logo consisting of the character 水 in a hexagon.

[Kiipu]

After re-reading all this, I can see I've misunderstood. We are not talking about the "Ichi" stamp, you (Thomas) simply introduced a new topic about the manufacturer named "合名会社神戸商店".

 

To me, they are one and the same.  The K was dropped and replaced by 一.  Just like Seki which went from the 岐 logo to the 刀 logo.

Serial Numbers in Sequential Order

38027東  K within a cherry blossom.

38254東  K within a cherry blossom.

39023東  K within a cherry blossom.

68452東  一 within a cherry blossom.

68765東  一 within a cherry blossom.

68920東  一 within a cherry blossom.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Yes,水 means water,and pronunciation is Mizu.

 

Is that what the kanji means? That has a very suspicious resemblance to “Misuno”!!! Maybe we just figured out which stamp came from the Misuno company! Thanks Trystan!

[Bruce Pennington]

To me, they are one and the same.  The K was dropped and replaced by 一.  Just like Seki which went from the 岐 logo to the 刀 logo.

Serial Numbers in Sequential Order

38027東  K within a cherry blossom.

38254東  K within a cherry blossom.

39023東  K within a cherry blossom.

68452東  一 within a cherry blossom.

68765東  一 within a cherry blossom.

68920東  一 within a cherry blossom.

Ok, while what you propose is possible, we really don't have any proof. The arsenals were given blocks of numbers to use on their blades. The blades themselves were made by a few contractors. We can speculate that K and 一 were from the company, however they could have been from two different companies. We just don't know. But it's an idea to watch.

 

SEKI - You lost me. When or where was "刀" used to mark Seki-made blades?

[Stegel]

This thread is interesting, initially i was in the same boat as Bruce, thinking we were looking at the ichi Sub-contractor logo, as that is where the link led me to believe, but all good now.

 

To me, they are one and the same.  The K was dropped and replaced by 一.  Just like Seki which went from the 岐 logo to the 刀 logo

I've been looking at Type 95's for a while now and think that your hypothesis has some strong merit to it Thomas, so well done.

I say this as all data collected by me to date, points in a similar direction.

 

 

The corporate logo for Mizuno was, as you correctly indicate, identified and confirmed by Nick Komiya a few years back now.

and they ceased production just prior to the Arsenal Administration re-shuffle, relinquishing Kokura's control in 1942.

 

Bruce,

 

SEKI - You lost me. When or where was "刀" used to mark Seki-made blades?

Look at the center of the round Seki sub-contractors logo on the Fuchi (not the blade itself), thats where you will find ( 刀 )

If i'm following this correctly, Thomas suspects that the Gifu logo ( 岐 ) was replaced by the Seki logo -with production remaining at the same factory.

[Stegel]

Mizuno produced only the Aluminium Handled Type 95 with the Top Locking mechanism, but in both the Standard issue and contingency issues.

[Stegel]

Serial Numbers in Sequential Order

38027東  K within a cherry blossom.

38254東  K within a cherry blossom.

39023東  K within a cherry blossom.

68452東  一 within a cherry blossom.

68765東  一 within a cherry blossom.

68920東  一 within a cherry blossom.

Some additions here...

The "一 within a cherry blossom"  also appears in the 47k-49k range for both Std issue (Brass Tsuba) and Contingency issue (Steel Tsuba)

[Shamsy]

Well since the Mizuno is finally out of the bag (I note that Nick actually mentioned them several times over the last few years but no one seemed to notice), here are three more.

[Bruce Pennington]

Ernie & Steve,

Thanks for verifying all this! Ah, the round Seki! I had forgotten about that one! I've seen partials on fuchi, but never a good, complete one. If one of you guys have a good example, I'll add it to the Stamps Document. There are examples of it on the foil Seki acceptance stickers on saya, but I don't have a good one on fuchi.

 

Ok, so there's now 2 guys I trust who are saying the evolution from "K" to "一" (Kobe Shoten) has merit. Well, I'm going to move the Ichi stamp out of "Unknowns" then, and put it down as a "Possibly later Kobe".

[BANGBANGSAN]

Thomas,thanks for the info.So Both 岐（Gifu）&刀(To/Knife)are ues by 関市（Seki）Factory。

[Kiipu]

Thomas, thanks for the info. So Both 岐 (Gifu) & 刀 (To/Knife) are ues by 関市 (Seki) Factory。

 

More than likely the same place, but different names and logos.

岐 = Seki Hamono 関刃物 Highest observed  serial number is 名78789.

刀 = Seki Tōken KK 関刀剣株式會社 Lowest observed serial number is 名82009.

I have one other serial number in-between but it has an iron fuchi and you know the drill with them. Here is the blade serial though 名81642.

 

And thank you for all your input.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Thomas

[Stegel]

Ah, the round Seki! I had forgotten about that one! I've seen partials on fuchi, but never a good, complete one. If one of you guys have a good example, I'll add it to the Stamps Document. There are examples of it on the foil Seki acceptance stickers on saya, but I don't have a good one on fuchi.

 

Hey Bruce, here's some to pick from

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Perfect Ernie, thanks!!! Added to the Stamps Doc.

[Shamsy]

I forgot to offer these this morning, Bruce. I have examples of Seki stamps on other models with iron tsuba, but they're fairly incomplete or covered by paint,. Still happy to get some pics of your interested, but these are clear enough for demonstration.

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice examples, Steve, thanks!

[Kiipu]

I read about this website called Spainswords via another thread and decided to have a look myself.  Some Type 95's showed up and below are the links.  Forgive my satire at times. Maybe one or two real ones along with some educational pieces to think twice about.

 

Is it me, but does the hilt look like it was painted gold?  I am not seeing an underlying coat of brown paint.  Possibly completely stripped and repainted?  Also, is that another alloy fuchi?

一 within a cherry blossom 70006東

http://www.spainswords.es/japonesa28.html

 

Again, a repaint.  Do I see a pattern here?

http://www.spainswords.es/japonesa73.html

 

The story just gets better and better.

http://www.spainswords.es/japonesa75.html

 

You know the drill by now.

http://www.spainswords.es/japonesa83.html

 

名101557.  Second opinion anyone?

http://www.spainswords.es/japonesa97.html

 

As always, the best one for last.  Just check out that arsenal logo!

http://www.spainswords.es/japonesa143.html

Edited September 21, 2019 by Thomas