WW1 Army parade sword

[kissakai]

Hi

I could use some help with the following.

 

 

I’m trying to determine the type of an Army officers parade sword.

It is either a 1886 pattern, type 8/19 or a 1875 pattern, type 14.

I’ve checked the Dawson and Fuller books but I’m still  confused

 

Please PM if you If you can help and I can send the images

 

 

Grev

 

[lonely panet]

pics of the nuckle guards will help, the type of decoration is a good clue or the lack of in the case of the type 8

[kissakai]

Images as requested. In the post I've added images as per request only to find the post suddenly 'dies'

 

They are similar but the first looks better quality. The back plate is quite plain

Army due to the 10 petal cherry blossom

 

 

 

 

Police due to the five petal cherry blossom

 

 

 

 

With thanks

Grev

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Grev,

 

Both are Type 19, the second one is not police but Army. The background blossoms are just obscured by the coloration loss. I've highlighted them in this pic I've enhanced.

 

The 8 and 19 can be hard to distinguish, according to Dawson, but if they have 2 belt hangers, then they're likely 8s. Single hanger, likely 19.

[kissakai]

Thanks Bruce for spotting the extra petals

Maybe I was looking for a difference as the finish is better on the first one

 

Other notes:

 

They both have a single carrying ring and single fuller

I understand that the blade length will vary

 

There are a few minor differences

Image 1 & 2

The pommel is more curved than the one on the right

The hand guard is wider than the one on the right

The blade is slightly longer than the second one.

This has screws in the saya at the top and bottom

 

 

Images 3 & 4

The pommel is straighter than the first one

The hand guard is thinner than the first one

The blade is slightly shorter than the first one.

This has screws in the saya at sides i.e. at 90° to the first one

 

I happy to see this as type 19 and now about the year, 1875 or 1886 (assumed it to be 1875)

 

 

Grev

[Bruce Pennington]

Grev,

 

I just re-checked Dawson and he was definitive that the Type 8 had 2 belt loops, so as yours have 1 loop and are Type 19s, then they are the 1886 model. That doesn't mean your blades were made in 1886 though. That simply is the year the official order came out establishing the type. They were made all the way through the 1930s, as the Type 94 replaced the 19s in 1934. So the manufacture date of these could be anywhere in between.

[kissakai]

Thanks Bruce

That sums it all up as I missed the two loops!

Both Army 1886 type 19

 

 

Grev

[PacificRim]

I just bought this type 8 (now I know it’s a type 19) parade sword two days ago from a gentleman whose uncle was a WW2 Vet. He said the sword had been stored in his basement for over 20 years after he inherited it from his uncle. The sword is in good condition all I did was cleaning the rust off the scabbard. The blade is sharp and looks different than a dress sword blade. Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.

 

Best regards,

 

Alex

[Bruce Pennington]

Alex,

 

Yes, due to the ornamentation on the handguard, I'd say it's a 19, but it's an early 19 as it has the 2 belt hangers (one removable). You're lucky to still have the 2nd one as they were often removed and discarded, or simply lost post-war.

[PacificRim]

Thanks Bruce, I saw it still has the second / removable hanger that’s why I bought it, for $275 I think it’s a fair price. I think the hilt is buffalo horn and has all the wires.