Plastic (CD jewel cases) for tsuba

[JohnTo]

At the end of last year I posted my initial ideas on plastic tsuba boxes adapted from CD jewel cases.  Some of the responses were positive while others expressed downright horror.  Shortly afterwards there was another posting on the dangers of the nagako post (I expect there is a Japanese term for this, but I don’t know it) coming loose in the box and scratching the tsuba with the pair of iron staples holding the post in place.  Since that time I have refined my design and have now made over 70 boxes (Can I hear the groans of horror from some USA NMB members?).  Some of my better tsuba are indeed housed in commercial paulownia boxes and will continue to be so, despite feeling them slide around on their nagako posts when I pick up a ‘cheap’ box at an angle.  But for most of my other pieces one of my plastic boxes with foam and felt inserts will suffice, costing less than £1 compared to over £20 for a paulownia box from Japan.  Not that I would have spent over £1400 on 70 paulownia boxes, but I have recently put an equivalent amount of money towards a group of 4 tsuba, all in high quality paulownia boxes with tailor made inserts. I know what I would rather spend my money on.

Another feature that I like about my boxes is the paper inserts.  They make it easy to identify the contents and I can remove them to read my notes (I’m old and forgetful), add new research comments with a pen, and later edit the master copy on the PC and print out an amended version.

Let’s address the comments on my previous posting:

1.’Just a little reminder that the reason paulownia is used is that it helps to insulate from changes in temperature and humidity which helps to prevent condensation/oxidation.  Depending on the environment plastic could actually promote condensation inside the case.’ Pete in Florida

Florida, like many other places can get quite humid.  My tsuba are stored in a centrally heated house with low humidity.  However, I readily concede that I do not know what the long term effects of the components used in my boxes have on tsuba (acrylic plastic, EVA foam, felt, PVA glue, paper and printing ink).

2.’the relatively unyielding interior surface + grit = possible abrasion damage to soft metal tsuba.’ (Pete, USA)  I’m not sure what metals are softer than acrylic plastic, besides my tsuba are only exposed to felt and paper.

3-‘The aesthetics are grim, I can't think of a more unpleasant experience.’ (Pete, USA).  You got me there, especially as the colour of the first batch of felt I bought was ‘Kermit green’ (it looked different in the advert).  A bit late in the day, but I’m now colour coding the felt according to tsuba type.  On the other hand I don’t have the ‘unpleasant experience’ of being embarrassed when my non-tsuba collecting friends say to me ‘You paid how much for this little wooden box?  Boy did they see you coming!’

I’ve attached some photos of some boxes, opened and closed to show all the bits, plus a comparison of 10 paulownia boxes, versus 10 10 jewel cases to show the space that can be saved.  A PDF file shows the manufacture in a bit more detail.

I finish with something my favourite Haiku poet (Kobayashi Issa) once wrote:

Shitajita ni / umarete yoro mo / sakura kana, which roughly translates as  ‘Being lowly born I view cherry blossom at night.’

Using his haiku as a template may I respectfully offer ‘Be-ing a poor man / I keep all my tsu-ba safe / in pla-stic box-es.’

Remember, original thought often requires thinking outside the box.

Regards, John

(just a guy making observations, asking questions, trying to learn)

Photos: 636 Comparison of 10 paulownia boxes and 10 CD jewel boxes

640 Three tsuba boxes, one (yellow insert) open

639:  Jewel Case Tsuba box with paper insert removed

638: Jewel Case Tsuba box with paper insert removed showing reverse with text.

 

 

 

 

[JohnTo]

opps, PDF file did not attach, John

2019 0909 Plastic Tsuba Boxes.pdf

[vajo]

Hi John is there not a problem with breathing of the metal?

But i like the way of presentation and storage with the information.

[TETSUGENDO]

John,

 

As Chris mentioned, the space savings and handy presentation do offer some pluses, but they are outweighed by the shortcomings.  You listed all the reasons why this is not a good idea in your statement, they should be more than enough to dissuade you from using them.   Also, have you ever dropped a CD case on a firm surface...what happens to the CD?   Enough said.

 

-S-

[vajo]

John you have some very nice tsuba and they are worth to store in the best way. Storing them in cent cost plastic CD boxes is not a good idea. I will only point this fact.

[Andi B.]

Maybe as an idea:

I use data cartridge cases to transport tsuba. They have nearly the same size as wooden boxes.

[lonely panet]

my understanding is that the correct wooden boxes have a desiccation effect, to keep the moister away from your beloved iron tsuba's.

 

putting them in plastic may stop the iron sweeting/breathing and will cause corrosion.

 

short term im sure is fine but personally I would move away from this practice. 

 

if its a cost issue, theres always second hand boxes on fleabay

[TETSUGENDO]

Andi,

 

It's a much more substantial design and transport for a brief period of time shouldn't be a problem, but how likely is it to open if dropped?

 

-S-

[Andi B.]

For transport (limited time) I put the tsuba in bubble wrap bags and then in the boxes. I don't worry about dropping the boxes - at least not more than worry about dropping a naked tsuba or a tsuba in a wooden box...

[TETSUGENDO]

Sounds good Andi, but just to be safe you could include a small packet of desiccant...that would alleviate moisture concerns.

 

-S-

[Ken-Hawaii]

I personally prefer the look of paulownia , but these would work if they are just being stacked. Some protection is better than none, although both will eventually allow moisture.

 

Steve, the problem with dessicant is that it's hydroscopic; that is, as it absorbs water, it liquefies. In that small volume, I'd advise against it.

[Ford Hallam]

I think ultimately it comes down to this, what is the depth and breadth of the aesthetic experience you desire or hope for in collecting tsuba?

 

If the totality of the art and craft of tosogu is something you want to access then don't scrimp, revel in every wonderful detail and aspect of the art. After all, the people who made it all that way, and best appreciated it all in the fully traditional and classical way probably have a lot to share and teach us.

 

But if you just need to have have as many tsuba as your buck will afford then I guess that's the only real consideration.

 

I remember a London based sword collector, telling me years ago, that he had no time for shirasaya and habaki....he was content to simply store his blades wrapped in newspaper. No doubt he still enjoyed the blades but it saddened me to think of how limited his view of them was.

[Stephen]

Few years back i remember photo's of dealer's auction. Most of the blades were wrapped in paper laying on the floor. Always thought for convenience to look at and handle. Maybe not.

[vajo]

Few years back i remember photo's of dealer's auction. Most of the blades were wrapped in paper laying on the floor. Always thought for convenience to look at and handle. Maybe not.

 

This is the point where it makes no difference if you collect pokemon cards or nihonto.

[TETSUGENDO]

If anyone would actually take the time to read John's statement, they would realize that he has considered all the issues concerning tsuba storage.   This includes aesthetics, he even properly quotes sources, safety, efficacy, durability...all the pros and cons.   Bottom line is, he has chosen what works for him.   Whether we agree with this choice, I do not, is to miss the point.   We have all seen his many fine pieces,  it's doubtful that his choice is driven by a lack of means.   His things, his choice...no need for condescension.

 

-S-

[JohnTo]

I was expecting a mixed reception to my post, always good to stir up some debate and thought on the NMB. I feel that is what it’s for.  I certainly did not expect the traditionalists to agree with me, but as Steve points out, it works for me.  I have saved space, money, find it much easier to search through my collection, and had some fun on wet afternoons making the boxes.  As far as I am concerned, nearly all my tsuba are now housed in a safe environment, nicely tucked up in their tailor made felt bedding.  I did recently see a lovely collector’s cabinet at a local auction, ideal for tsuba, but when I calculated how many I could store and the space it would take up, dismissed the idea.

Many of my tsuba came from job lots at non-specialist auctions, probably from deceased estates and were showing signs of neglect.  Some even came loose, in plastic bags; how I winced when the auctioneer handed them over, ringing like bells as they clanked against each other.  Look at the condition of some of the tsuba in museum collections.  I remember reading that a bunch of iron tsuba in the British Museum got soaked in WWII and rusted together.  Mine are treasured (apart from the cast iron ones!)

I expect that a lot of NMB members are what I term £/$100 tsuba collectors, i.e. that is their maximum level of affordability for a piece.  Paying another £/$20- 25 for a paulownia box is probably not important to them.  Let’s not end up like some collectors of model metal die cast planes, cars and railway engines that I have met, who won’t take the models out of their packaging as it would devalue them!

Andi B, thanks for the info regarding larger plastic boxes, I have a couple of tsuba that are too thick for CD cases.

Regards, John

(just a guy making observations, asking questions, trying to learn)

[vajo]

John it is easy to transform a 1.000 Dollar Tsuba to a $100 piece. But it is impossible to turn back time. Preservation is a task to hand over the next generation. You can not take anything with you. 

[Ford Hallam]

If anyone would actually take the time to read John's statement, they would realize that he has considered all the issues concerning tsuba storage.   This includes aesthetics, 

 

 

 

Sorry Steven, but I must disagree. As I pointed out in my submission there may well be many things that one is not at first aware of when considering this whole topic. I have no doubt at all that the utilitarian sensibility was alive and well in the Edo period yet never the less certain, elegant, storage solutions were decided on and agreed as being the best....for all sorts of reasons, not just pure utility.

 

For us, today, to simply assume we know enough to make a final, and polar opposite, decision does seem to suggest that we may have missed some thing that the original lovers of these objects did in fact feel was significant. 

 

The point has been laboured by many artistic, historical and sociological specialists...we must be cautious not to distort our view/understanding/appreciation of alien cultural artefacts by only engaging with them within a framework that we construct. 

[TETSUGENDO]

Sorry that you read it differently, but I still feel the aesthetic issue was well covered.   Again, my feelings are very different from John's, but he has a right to his opinion.   Likewise, you are free to share yours.. discussion enlightens us all !

 

-S-

[Ford Hallam]

I would just add, for consideration, that it has been well established in numerous studies and trials that in pretty much all aesthetic experiences that context and presentation dramatically impacts and modifies our experience and effects our pleasure. 

 

So to return to my first comment it's really down to what you're hoping to get out of the study and appreciation of tosogu and how far you want to delve.

 

What anyone decides to do is, of course, entirely their own decision and of no concern of anyone else. Having said that I also think it important to discuss not just the practical advantages of this storage system but to also point out the possible loss of enjoyment and leaning that may inadvertently follow.

 

By way of an example think about how it feels and the emotional sensations you might become aware of when handling a CD case as opposed to a Kiri-bako. Quite different sensual realms I would suggest. With that sort of difference it seems inevitable that the subsequent appreciation of the tsuba inside, will have been conditioned to a degree by the box itself.

 

But as we must all agree it's up to you.

[JohnTo]

I guess Ford and I are poles apart when it comes to boxes.  No doubt he empathises with collectors of model cars etc., who never take them out of their boxes, just peer at them through the Perspex window.  For me, whether they are beautifully made paulownia boxes or converted CD cases, they are just packaging.  The box that my breakfast cereal comes in does nothing to enhance my eating experience.

However, white cotton gloves and a pint of Old Peculiar on a Friday evening is something that really does enhance my aesthetic experience and appreciation of tsuba.  Nothing can beat the anticipation as I pour the beer into a glass and slowly pull on the cotton gloves.  Then I open a tsuba box (wood or plastic) and tip the contents into my gloved hand.  The feeling of the cotton glove against the metal is quite sensual and as I rotate the tsuba into various lighting angles, to get better views of the features, I feel good to know that I am treating my tsuba with the most care and respect that I can give them.  Often, as the beer nears its end, my senses are enhanced and I notice features that I have never seen, or read about before (and hope to share with NMB members at some later date).

Aesthetics are a funny thing.  I often go to the Asian auctions and see the Chinese fighting over a ceramic bowl that is worth more (to them) than my entire collection of tsuba.  If I’m lucky, and buy something, I am grateful that I love objects that must be considered cheap in terms of the hours of skilled labour that goes into their production.

Regards, John

(just a guy making observations, asking questions, trying to learn)

[Ford Hallam]

"I guess Ford and I are poles apart when it comes to boxes. No doubt he empathises with collectors of model cars etc., who never take them out of their boxes, just peer at them through the Perspex window. "

 

Actually, I have no opinion on toy car collectors. But to try and mock me and the perfectly reasonable points I offered to this discussion is both rude and ignorant.

 

Not to mention that the attempt to align my aesthetic inclinations with those of toy collectors is pathetically weak and utterly misses the whole point.

[Pete Klein]

Personally, I prefer this bent:

 

 

Many (too many) years ago a collector of fittings and chadogu explained his concept of how 'boxed' items should be appreciated.  "Opening the enclosures is just as disrobing a most beautiful woman.  It is done gently, yet deliberately, advancing ever so hesitantly whilst proceeding from layer to layer, appreciating each as the beauty assuredly unfolds until you finally arrive at your destination".  I have always taken this advice to heart in my own ways.

[Stephen]

I thought John was being too cute for his own good. I didn't read it as mocking just trying to have a laugh.

I think sometimes we take ourselves a wee bit to serous here.

If im wrong carry on.

[Brian]

Me too, I don't think disrespect was intended. Don't think there is anyone who would disagree with Ford's points...or Pete's quote. Words to live by indeed.
But if John enjoys his items that way, he is free to do so. As long as one gets enjoyment out of your passion.
 

[TETSUGENDO]

"But if John enjoys his items that way, he is free to do so. As long as one gets enjoyment out of your passion."

 

Agreed.    Concerning the other part of your statement....let others take it as they will.

 

-S-

[Guest]

Hi Pete,

 

One's sensibilities have been somewhat shocked, you wrote:

 

  "Opening the enclosures is just as disrobing a most beautiful woman. 

 

I have heard of Cyber porn, now I encounter Tsuba porn..............

 

Bye the bye, have you heard of Swiss Tony? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxWnQBbIDgQ

[Greg F]

For the traditional tsuba boxes a re kind of like a shirasaya is to a blade without koshirae. When ive bought some of my cheaper tsuba that havnt come weith a box I feel uncomfortable about it until I buy a box for it.

I also dont think John meant any disrespect with his statement but can see how it could be seen as such.

Pete dont let your wife read this thread or you might have to choose between the tsuba and your wife haha.

Another enjoyable thought provoking thread on NMB. Thanks.

 

Greg

[Vermithrax16]

Most of my tsuba won't fit in a CD case (thickness wise) so this thread that has dominated discussion here seems weird.

[JohnTo]

Ford, firstly let me apologise for offending you, it was not meant, and secondly apologise for the delay in replying.  I have been away without Internet, mobile phone or PC; Heaven.

Let me explain my background.  I was a scientist, a member of that group of people usually thought of as humourless nerds by outsiders.  Some are, but most of us like to lighten up scientific discussions with jokes and not get too intense.  My own particular field of special interest; ‘The use of Monte Carlo simulations in the assessment of regression mathematics as used in assay calibration’ is particularly dull, even for my ex-colleagues, and I’d be lucky to have half of them paying attention to talks on the subject after 10 minutes, despite including a few jokes.  We have a local rock band, made up entirely of vicars.  They include the odd psalm sung to a rock classic in their repertoire and finish with ‘Always look on the bright side’, from the Life of Brian.  I’m sure some clergy would not approve of their laid back attitude to religion, but the majority of our local vicar’s congregation love his sense of humour.  I guess some of us are more loosely wrapped than others.

But seriously.  I cannot get enthused over boxes, wood or plastic.  To me, they are just containers to store and keep my treasures safe.  However, my appreciation of koshirae is enhanced by my Friday evening ritual of white gloves and a pint of beer, just as my viewing of blades is enhanced by the ritual of gloves, cleaning with uchiko and tissue before applying chogi oil while sipping a (small) glass of Southern Comfort.  My friends laugh at my eccentricities and constantly tease me about wasting my money on ‘rusty old pieces of Japanese iron’, but what the heck.

 

Best regards, John