True Gendaito or watch out ?

[luisboni]

What do you guys think? real deal ? 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T812-Japanese-Samurai-Sword-Sadayoshi-Gendaito-Katana-Blade-75-0-CM/143374811904?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40718%26meid%3D23c89c6b47884b0c852ae5089ff750e4%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D223655272177%26itm%3D143374811904%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%3A4fc1ba76-d20b-11e9-922c-74dbd1802641%7Cparentrq%3A0fcd1cda16d0a4d27678c4fcffbc7630%7Ciid%3A1

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Luis, the seller is notorious for selling Gimei swords of famous Gendai smiths and this is no exception. Do a search of "Komonjo" and you will see what I mean. It is believed the majority of these swords are made in China.

[luisboni]

They all look very similar and non authentic, plus the curvature is way off. Thanks

[Brian]

Search the forum, there is more than enough info on him.

[tbonesullivan]

I see Hada in the JI, and the temper line looks real.

 

That NAKAGO looks like someone took a BELT SANDER to it. 

[Ray Singer]

So no, not authentic at all. This is the third contemporary fake of the Enomoto family blades I have seen. This is copying the mei of the gassaku works of Enomoto Yusuishin Sadayoshi and his son Sadahito. The real nakago from these smiths are some of the most beautifully signed and finished of any modern sword you will see.

 

https://yuhindo.com/enomoto-sadayoshi-sadahito/

[luisboni]

So what would be the verdict? Quality fakes?

[ChrisW]

Fake enough to fool those that know enough to be dangerous to their own money.

[16k]

Well, it’s been discussed, conjectured, debated many times here with no real conclusions.

 

I actually own one. It is signed Yoshihiro and that would be Seto Yoshihiro.

 

Of course, I’m not stupid enough to believe it was actually ,a de by Yoshihiro. I bought it knowing that and since most of these blades finish in the $400/600 range, it wasn’t a great risk. I wanted to know what they were.

 

... and I still don’t know for sure!

 

I’m pretty sure they aren’t Chinese. I’ve seen too many of them to know that. Not that the Chinese don’t have the skill, they do. But it wouldn’t be cost effective. Most of their cheaper blades are already in that price range, and, trust me, they are very different.

 

Those Komonjo blades have a nice Hada, a nice temper line, ububa, we’ll finished nakago. Comparing to the Yoshihiro pictures I’ve seen ,everything matches. Yasurime are correct, so is Nakago jiri, type of Hamon, type of Hada. Even the mei strokes look good.

 

...and yet, of course, they can’t be genuine, not at that price point.

 

I’ll add they cut like a razor, more than any upper tier Chinese blades I’ve ever seen. The only thing that could be improved is the quality of the polish.

 

So what are they? The jury is still out there. I believe they are Japanese but fakes probably smuggled out of Japan. Possibly iaito. Whatever, fake or not, they are very good blades, and at that price point, I can’t regret buying one.

[PNSSHOGUN]

From what I have gathered there are a couple of sources this group of fakers are using:

 

1: Newly made Japanese blades

2: wartime showato with mei removed and replaced with gimei

3: old mumei blades with new gimei

4: chinese or korean made swords of considerable relative quality

 

The Japanese blades are thankfully still easy to recognize as they have all the normal quality and activity with just the gimei, the foreign ones are dangerous as they are very close, the one thing that gives them away is the hamon and polish (and obviously the fake signatures). Once again if these swords were sold for what they were I believe there would be a a thriving and honest market for them from all types collectors. 

[16k]

oh, and one more thing. I asked Komonjo bluntly if his blades were gimei. The reply was:

 

"Every sword is gimei until proven otherwise."

 

Speaks a thousand word, eh?

[luisboni]

Smart Businessman 

[ChrisW]

To be honest, that assumption can be made of any unpapered sword until looked at in a Shinsa setting. And we find that even sometimes the old Shinsa papers are not legitimate. But as JP pointed out, it does speak many words when the seller says that. Just automatically assume that they're gimei at the very least, if not very good copies/moderns. The only surefire way would be to do a metal composition test to: 1. Prove its actual tamehagane and 2. Prove there's no radioactive particles in it (proof that they're pre-atomic testing). That test is very expensive for now and also comes at the cost of taking some steel from the sword.

[OliverP]

A (very likely reliable) source told me lately, that all Gendai blades sold by Komonjo come from the same Korean Smith.

[luisboni]

Is that Korean Smith any good? any info of the type of Steel and method he uses?

[OliverP]

No further info available.