Pinned Kabutogane on Type 94

[PNSSHOGUN]

I'm searching for more examples of this fairly unusual type of Kabutogane seen on the Type 94, usually with a separate sarute barrel. Having only seen them on the Type 94 pattern fittings I'm wondering if this is a very early design and would like to see any more examples to compare and perhaps identify a specific Koshirae maker or date for these. Given the added complexity I can only imagine these were very early in the Type 94's introduction and were quickly phased out for the standard Kabutogane we all know.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

John, is your example on a 94? I only see one haikan (ashi).

 

I know Neil has a few of these. It will be good to hear his view on this.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Yes, IMO definitely a Type 94 sans 2nd hanger. It would make a useful thread about identifying Type 94 (at least the early ones). Once you see the major identifiers like shape of Tsuka, Tsuba, position of locking catch button, gloss finish of saya and otherwise better quality/fit and finish you can certainly pick them out. Keep an eye on this thread, I suspect majority of examples shown will have many of the features mentioned.

 

After a certain period (maybe once the war in Manchuria progressed) it becomes alot harder to differentiate an early or high quality Type 98 and Type 94 from each other and the presence of an original 2nd hanger is the only way to tell them apart.

[IJASWORDS]

John , interesting topic. These swords have a number of things in common . 

1. High status 94 pattern koshirae for usually high ranking officers .

2. Usually house an old blade (making manufacturing date impossible ).

3. The sword with the general tassel has a drilled kabutogane, where the other is drilled and has pins inserted . 

4. The ferrule for the sarute barrel if floating and not cast in the kabutogane like later 98 pattern . 

5. I have a couple of bona fide 94's that are not drilled, pinned, or don't have floating sartute ferrules. (later production ?).

6. I think they are early 94's as the koshirae required a lot more fiddley pieces and workmanship , probably pre-Pacific war time . 

Interestingly, both the swords pictured have the family mon on the fuchi  NOT on the kabutogane. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Any speculation as to thier reason to exist? Funtion? Asthetics? Are any of our Nihonto followers aware of historically older koshirae with pinned kabutogane? (I realize the "civilian" style of old mostly had a different styled Kashira, or butt-cap, but some came with a kabuto).

[Dave R]

Any speculation as to thier reason to exist? Funtion? Asthetics? Are any of our Nihonto followers aware of historically older koshirae with pinned kabutogane? (I realize the "civilian" style of old mostly had a different styled Kashira, or butt-cap, but some came with a kabuto).

 

 Kabutogane are distinctive of traditional Tachi, the old style sword on two hangers, and of Handachi which have the hilt mounts of the Tachi, but worn edge up through the sash/obi like a Katana. The oldest style Tachi don't have Ito, just lacquered Same so the kabutogane has to be fixed on some other way.

 

 And of course there are tachi that do not have kabutogane, because.... Japan!

 

 The Shin Gunto was modelled on a 14th century Tachi, with some modifications for production reasons, and for practical use on a modern field. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

One from another collector 1934 dated Yasukuni-To, fits in with the idea these were early and on high quality swords:

[PacificRim]

This one is dated 1935 company grade gunto.

[Bruce Pennington]

After seeing John's, with the heads missing, but pins evident on one side, I'm thinking that Neil's one with just the holes must have originally had pins, but they must have gone missing at some point.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Here is one from the internet. Shinshinto blade.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Great example Bryce, nice and unusual Mon placement.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Outstanding example here: https://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/katana/664/00.html

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another exceptional example, once again we see a similar pattern including Mon on the fuchi. https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/o342770067

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Here is another one with an older blade and Kikusui mon on the fuchi.

Cheers,

Bryce

[Bruce Pennington]

That’s a beauty Bryce! Is it yours?

[Bryce]

G'day Bruce,

I won it at auction last night. Unfortunately the auctioneer's photos weren't very good, so I don't know if the blade is a steel tsunagi or something decent. I thought it was worth a shot based on the koshirae.

Cheers,

Bryce

[PNSSHOGUN]

Wow, great win Bryce, even if the blade is a wash the mounts are where the interest is.

[Bryce]

Another feature of these swords is that the chuso (spring clip) is always located centrally rather than closer towards the cutting edge which is more common. Is a centrally located chuso a feature of earlier shin gunto?

 

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Central Chuso is definitely one the indicators of an early sword. I have seen Type 94 with the 11 o'clock position button as well.

[PNSSHOGUN]

While looking at these the other day it occurred to me why they would be pinned: with the Sarute barrel separate from the Kabutogane there is nothing afixing it to the bottom of the Tsuka. All of these examples have the Ito knot tied under the Kabutogane, if the knot passes around it as you sometimes see the pins would not be required.

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice theory John, however, my Mantetsu ito is tied the same way, but there are no pins.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Bruce, I'm talking about the Kabutogane with completely separate sarute barrels, yours appears to be the standard type.

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce, I'm talking about the Kabutogane with completely separate sarute barrels, yours appears to be the standard type.

I must not be familiar with the barrel type you're discussing. Mine come out and are seperate from the kabu:

[Dave R]

 A bit of confusion here between the "barrel" which goes through the kabutogane and the "washer" either side which I think is called a kanemono,  Sarute kanemono or possibly za kanemono? 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Bruce if you look closely at all the examples posted there is no disk attached in the center of the Kabutogane, in Fuller & Gregory it is noted as being "A Kabutogane which, in fact, is an Ishikuze". If the Sarute comes out there is nothing solid attaching the Kabutogane to the Tsuka. On your sword (and nearly all Type 98) the Sarute barrel goes through and holds onto the Kabutogane via the attached disk, thus giving a more secure hold considering the Sarute & tassel are theoretically to keep the sword attached to the officers arm during combat.

 

Edit: A sword I shared earlier has the Ito tied over the Kabutogane, so this may be just a wild goose chase....

 

 

 

 

 

[IJASWORDS]

Like this.

[doomsdaymachine]

Was just pointed to this thread, as I have apparently come into possession of one! Didn't even know this was a thing.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Very nice example you have, what blade is inside?

[doomsdaymachine]

Thanks John. It's older, 2 character signed Kanemoto. I have a thread up on it in general, discussing the signature and whether it's worth a polish or not. This thread gives me hope! lol

[PNSSHOGUN]

Reggie, you definitely have a winner that any of us would love to have. A nice rank tassel to complete it and you'll have a really fantastic Type 94.