Guest Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 Thank you Uwe and Steve M. Hi Steve, the menuki in JP's image are the standard Kaigunto pattern of Maru Ni Yamato Zakura with the addition of the central Kamon in Silver. The Gunto Menuki which you illustrated (http://www.jp-milita...viphtml/70.html) are slightly different, being without the circle, I think called Yae Yamato Zakura (Cherry Blossom with stamens and petals.beneath) See Ohmura: http://ohmura-study.net/905.html Quote
16k Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 Thank you for your replies, guys. Malcolm, here it is reversed, as requested! Quote
Guest Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 Hi Guys, Thank you JP, looking closely, I still reckon that the Leaves at 12o'clock are Tsuta, as there is a central dot from which the veins extend. Quote
16k Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 Yup! Seems to be the one! Thank you guys! Quote
Guest Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 Uwe, I think you have it!! Mitsu Tsuta Shiriawase it is. Well done. 1 Quote
16k Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 Do we know which families used that Kamon? Quote
uwe Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 Do we know which families used that Kamon? Look at one of my earlier posts JP probably "Matsudaira Daimyo of Obata in Kodzuke" Quote
16k Posted October 23, 2019 Report Posted October 23, 2019 I’d seen that Uwe, Thanks! but when I checked, I stumbled upon the Aoi mon for them. Now, that was Wikipedia, so maybe they got it wrong or just put the Tokugawa mon since they were related. Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 Wikipedia uses generalized Mons from what I've seen, often simply putting them under Hollyhock or Imperial household. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted November 10, 2019 Report Posted November 10, 2019 Well known, and oft talked about, found on a kyu backstrap: 1 Quote
Guest Posted November 11, 2019 Report Posted November 11, 2019 Hi Bruce, it's called Maru Ni Hachisuka Manji (Becase the lines of the Swastika are quite thick, if they were thinner, i.e larger spaced, in same angle, then it would be Maru Ni Itsutsuwari Manji. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 11, 2019 Report Posted November 11, 2019 I have a Kagami Maedate with that Hachisuka Mon, the same thick tomo-e manji. Interestingly, if you visit Tokushima Castle Museum, you will see many examples of a reversed Manji too, because as they explained to me, one branch of the family wanted to distinguish their own line from the main one. 1 Quote
eventwave Posted November 26, 2019 Report Posted November 26, 2019 Hello I would like to ask you for help in identifying the Mon or confirming the results of my research. On the saya of daisho koshirae, the Mon is Maru Ni Mitsuboshi. According to my findings, the Mon could belong to Katsura Kogoro, later Kido Takayoshi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kido_Takayoshi There are several people with this Mon on this link, but only one is a samurai. https://ippongi.org/2011/12/23/月星紋%e3%80%80-狩猟、漁労、海上の民の痕跡紋-%e3%80%80新/ Katsura Kogoro was later renamed to Kido Takayoshi (木戸 孝允) in 1869 and use another kamon (chrizantenium) https://ippongi.org/2009/01/12/kiku/ However, I did not find any other credible link that would confirm these findings. I would be very grateful if you were interested in this character and would share your knowledge. I attach some photos. Of course, the family crest belonged to the Katsura family (or other family), koshirae may not belong directly to Katsura Kogoro, but to anyone in the Katsura family, ...but it is still very close to this important man. thank you very much Mayo 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted November 27, 2019 Report Posted November 27, 2019 The original three-star or three-dango Mon had no circle but at some point it was added. Towards the end of Edo in the confusion of the Bakumatsu, many families claimed Samurai status, and after the beginning of Meiji it must have been a free-for-all. Here is a billfold or wallet with the same Mon. 3 Quote
Bryce Posted December 16, 2019 Report Posted December 16, 2019 G'day Guys, Is this just a normal Kikusui mon or is it a recognized variation? Cheers, Bryce 1 Quote
b.hennick Posted December 16, 2019 Report Posted December 16, 2019 It was used on blades made at the Minotogawa jinja. Quote
David Flynn Posted December 16, 2019 Report Posted December 16, 2019 Also, by Sadakazu and Sadakatsu. Sadakazu, on the Nakago and Sadakatsu, on the blade. Quote
Guest Posted December 16, 2019 Report Posted December 16, 2019 Hi Bryce, It's a variation, yours shows 7 petals and two lines representing the stream. Normally Kikusui Kamon shows 9 petals and three lines representing the stream, as used on blades forged at Minatogawa Jinja. The 9, 3 version is the one commonly associated with Kusonoki Masashige (To whom the shrine was dedicated). http://www.samuraisword.com/nihonto/minatogawa_shrine_masanao/index.htm 2 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted December 28, 2019 Report Posted December 28, 2019 Can't remember if this one was covered yet, always fascinated by your background info on these regardless. Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted December 28, 2019 Report Posted December 28, 2019 Hi John, that one (Makino) came up yesterday on one of the threads. Quote
Guest Posted December 28, 2019 Report Posted December 28, 2019 Maru Ni Maki No Kashiwa, or Maruni Mitsu Gashiwa..........??!! The clue is in the post from yesterday which Piers mentions. http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/30678-need-help-identifying-the-maker-of-this-katana/ Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted December 28, 2019 Report Posted December 28, 2019 Found it, thank you. Very interesting, the sword is a nice one with Shin Shinto blade and fine quality mountings. The Habaki almost looks like Shakudo and the oversize Seppa are either silver or silver plated. Quote
uwe Posted December 29, 2019 Report Posted December 29, 2019 Hello I would like to ask you for help in identifying the Mon or confirming the results of my research. On the saya of daisho koshirae, the Mon is Maru Ni Mitsuboshi. According to my findings, the Mon could belong to Katsura Kogoro, later Kido Takayoshi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kido_Takayoshi There are several people with this Mon on this link, but only one is a samurai. https://ippongi.org/2011/12/23/月星紋%e3%80%80-狩猟、漁労、海上の民の痕跡紋-%e3%80%80新/ Katsura Kogoro was later renamed to Kido Takayoshi (木戸 孝允) in 1869 and use another kamon (chrizantenium) https://ippongi.org/2009/01/12/kiku/ However, I did not find any other credible link that would confirm these findings. I would be very grateful if you were interested in this character and would share your knowledge. I attach some photos. Of course, the family crest belonged to the Katsura family (or other family), koshirae may not belong directly to Katsura Kogoro, but to anyone in the Katsura family, ...but it is still very close to this important man. thank you very much Mayo Hi Mayo, astonishingly your mon is not covered in the books I have, though it looks quite simple (“maru ni mitsuboshi”). I suspect, that this, like most of the Japanese mon, was utilized by several families (家) over the centuries. Trying to pin down a certain person or clan, might be almost impossible. As Piers said, no rules at some point around Meiji and onwards......furthermore, the new staging of the nobility based on the European model! So without proper references, I hate to say, your search could be hopeless and ending up only in assumptions..... 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted January 2, 2020 Report Posted January 2, 2020 Here's a wild one! Don't know where I found it. 1 Quote
Guest Posted January 2, 2020 Report Posted January 2, 2020 Hi Bruce, nice find. Although the image is not too clear, I'm pretty sure that it is the "Kan - In Giku" Kamon 菊紋 variant, which shows as one central 16 petal Chrysanthemum, flat on, which is surrounded at the cardinal points by four flat on Chrysanthemum cut in to make the circle, and at the ordinal points, four side on views of Chrysanthemum and leaves. It is top line, second from the left in the image below: (Also, see page 177 of the Matsuya Piece Goods Store catalogue - reprinted by Dover under the title " Japanese Design Motifs) 1 Quote
Guest Posted January 2, 2020 Report Posted January 2, 2020 Hi Guys, just an update on the Maru Ni Mitsuboshi Kamon mentioned previously: I have just found a reference which mentions the three stars having a connection with the worship of constellation of Orion and representing the three Celestial Generals: http://www.hubert-herald.nl/NihonSymbols.htm 4 Quote
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