Help Identity Our Mon.

[raaay]

Here a few of mine , I have never got round to finding out what they are !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Hi Ray

 

Image 1

 

No 1 from the left: Maru Ni Omodaka (Water Plantain within a circle)

 

No 2 from the left: Most likely a family name like you see on personal seals. (one for Steve M or Nobody san)

 

No 3 from the left: Igeta Ni Mitsu Tomoe (Three comma shaped jewels within a well curb)

 

Image 2 Sorry I can't work it out can you take a snap in daylight please.

[raaay]

Hi Malcolm

 

many thanks , I will try and get a better picture of the single one .

[SteveM]

No. 2... 

 

The right side is 家, the left side is...? Maybe 安家 (various pronunciations: Anke, Yasuka, Akka), but that is a very rare last name. 

There are some kamon with letters in them, but nothing like this. So I'd also say it's meant to be a family name and not a kamon. 

[IJASWORDS]

These are the two swords I put up on the "Pinned Kabutogane"  thread . These are early '94's with lovely thick tsubas. The interesting feature is the Mon located on the fuchi. 

[Guest]

Hi Neil

 

No 1:  Maru Ni Chigai Ya (Arrow flights crossed within a circle)

 

No 2: Rindo Guruma (Gentian leaves and flowers as a wheel)

[menpo]

Hi gents

I was wondering if anyone could identify these mon and the possible families that used them. I've had them for years and had no luck identifying them. I'd greatly appreciate any help you could give. Thanks in advance everyone.

 

Gethin

[Bryce]

Hi Bryce

 

No 1 is known as Maru Ni Umebachi

 

No 2 is known as Maru Ni Futatsu Biki

 

Hi Bruce the one ascribed to Ashikaga in your illustration is a variant called Maru Ni Uhini Futatsu Biki (See how the two horizontal bars are separated from the circle).

 

http://gari.boo.jp/cafepress/cafepress_hikiryo.html

 

Thanks Malcolm/Bruce.

Cheers,

Bryce

[tbonesullivan]

Is there any listing out there of more "simple" mon? Also how important is a circle around the design into identifying the mon?

[Guest]

Hi Gethin

 

No 1: Igeta Ni Futstsu Biki (Two lines within a well curb)

 

No2: Maru Ni Shikaku Futatsu Biki (Two lines within a square within a circle)

 

No 3: Maru Ni Hana Warabi (Bracken Flowers within a circle)

[Guest]

Hi David,

 

As far as I know, the Maru circle defines the Kamon, the same shape without the circle is a variant Kamon.

 

Can you show the simple Kamon you have in mind?

[Bruce Pennington]

One Bryce found, posted on the “pinned kabu” thread:

[Guest]

Hi Bruce,

 

Unfortunately It is unclear as to how many petals are there above the leaves and whether the petals and leaves are rounded (Kiri) or angular (Onikiri).

 

Can you get a clearer image please.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Bruce has some gremlins in his computer that always upload tiny pictures for some reason!

 

[Guest]

Cheers John

 

Gosankiri (3 - 5 - 3) Paulownia

[tbonesullivan]

Hi David,

 

As far as I know, the Maru circle defines the Kamon, the same shape without the circle is a variant Kamon.

 

Can you show the simple Kamon you have in mind?

 

Sure! It's a fairly simple mon, and I think I've seen it a few times in google searches, but my Japanese is not very good. It's a five petaled flower, on the sheath of a naginata.  it looks like a Kikyo, but the petal ends go inwards and not outwards.  Is it a cherry blossom?

[Guest]

Hi David,

 

Correct, it is cherry blossom and your variation is called Sakura

 

The type that we often encounter on Army Gunto fittings is the version with stamens called Yamato Zakura, not to be confused with Yae Yamato Zakura (Double blossom with stamens) which is on the menuki and haikan  of Army Gunto.

 

Kaigunto menuki display Maru Ni Yamato Zakura ( Stamen version within a circle).

 

Kikyo is the balloon flower, but can easily be mistaken for cherry blossom.

[tbonesullivan]

Sakura... I should have known to look for that. Thanks Malcolm!

 

Is there any particular clan who uses that Kamon, or is just a pretty standard military marking?

[16k]

Interesting link about mons. Scroll to the bottom of the page for a whole lot of them and their names!

 

https://doyouknowjapan.com/symbols/

[Guest]

Hi JP  & David,

 

I get a warning of malicious possible activity from that site.

 

That just might be my Anti virus and UK connections.

 

These show safe:

 

https://www.samurai-archives.com/crest1.html

 

 

http://www.tozandoshop.com/v/vspfiles/kamon/index.html

[16k]

I don’t have this so I can’t tell you. I’ve been several times there from my IPad and never had an issue, but if your Antivirus tells you not to, please exerce caution. If necessary and others experience it, I’ll try and make screen captures of the relevant pictures.

 

EDIT: I’ve captured them all, but there are 46 pictures, so I have to see if I can make a PDF file from my IPad to upload them.

[b.hennick]

This is not a mon on a WWII sword but I have been looking for information on it for years. All help will be appreciated,

 

[Guest]

Hi Barry,

 

Wow, that's a rare one

 

At first glance, it looks like it might be Rindo Hana Guruma (A variation on Gentian flowers in a wheel form).

 

Or maybe Nanatsu Rindo Hana (7 Gentian flowers)

 

However Kamon showing Gentian are mainly depicted with its leaves, or sometimes in combination with Bamboo leaves

 

As a matter of passing interest, there is a version called Hagakure Rindomon - Gentian hidden amongst leaves

 

Try searching with this: 葉隠竜胆紋

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=757&ei=dpJwXabMJsLKgweFhregDA&q=%E8%91%89%E9%9A%A0%E7%AB%9C%E8%83%86%E7%B4%8B&oq=%E8%91%89%E9%9A%A0%E7%AB%9C%E8%83%86%E7%B4%8B&gs_l=img.3...1655.1655..2150...0.0..0.50.50.1......0....2j1..gws-wiz-img.5FNZB35ZSBs&ved=0ahUKEwim3-q277jkAhVC5eAKHQXDDcQQ4dUDCAU&uact=5

 

 

 

 

 

Hi again JP, iPad would explain why no possible malicious flagging, I'm using a PC for this.

[IJASWORDS]

This I have been told is more a good luck charm rather than a family mon. It looks like a ginger plant. Help would be appreciated . 

[Guest]

Hi Neil

 

It's a Kamon and quite an important group, yours is  known as Maru Ni Daki Myoga (Ginger "embracing" within a circle)

 

Very big in the Saga area of Kyushu and the Nabeshima Han, which was a variant minus the Maru also used by the late Fujii Okimitsu Sensei for Kenseikai Dojo in the UK as many NMB members will fondly remember.

[Guest]

Hi Barry,

 

There is an anomaly in your Kamon, which just struck me.

 

There are seven flowers, the majority flower or leaf Kamon combinations are either singular, paired, or in groups which balance the frame i.e 3, 6 or 8.

 

Might this be an allusion to Shichisei Hōkoku! (七生報國; "Would that I had seven lives to give for my Emperor!")  

 

(Kusunoki Masasue's last words).

 

Given that the Kamon for the Kusunoki was Kikusui: the Imperial Chrysanthemum floating upon the tides or the stream, and the the Kamon for the Kusunoki's sworn enemies,  the MInamoto inspired Kamakura Shogunate, was three gentian flowers above three bamboo leaves.

 

 , but worth investigation perhaps.

 

 

Expanding on my thought, are the 7 gentian flowers representing the 7 lives to be given for the Emperor?

[b.hennick]

Thanks Malcolm! I reread your post but I'm having difficulty following what you are getting at. Can you expand on your post?

[Stephen]

Who cant ID their Moms ??

What? Oh sorry cataracts carry on

[16k]

Thanks Stephen, I had quite a laugh at that one!

[IJASWORDS]

One of my all time favorites , always looks old time Samurai to me .