CarsonSharps Posted December 13, 2021 Report Share Posted December 13, 2021 Has anyone ever seen this one before? Thanks! Carson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted December 13, 2021 Report Share Posted December 13, 2021 Looks like a "Genji Letter" crest. You can read about them towards the bottom of the following wikipedia page under the heading "Monkō". A pretty rare family crest, I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kōdō https://kyotokimono.tumblr.com/post/158624802189/genji-ko 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarsonSharps Posted December 13, 2021 Report Share Posted December 13, 2021 Most appreciated Steve! Ill check the links! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted December 20, 2021 Report Share Posted December 20, 2021 I'm starting to think this may be a different kind of mon. It doesn't quite match up with any of the Genji Letters, but in a different thread Piers made me aware of a whole new genre of letters, the so-called Angled Kanji letters. There are a few websites that talk about them, but I still can't identify this particular one. These Angled Kanji Mon seem even more obscure than the Genji Letters (though stylistically they look very similar). https://kamon-db.net/portfolio_tag/kakujimon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 Thought I would consolidate some mon being discussed on 2 or 3 other threads, having to do with stars. And please correct me if one or more of these are something else, but there are some mon having to do with 5 stars, 7 stars, etc on habaki and even a kaigunto tsuba. Here they are: This one posted by Gareth, @Butch: This one posted by Rob, @robinalexander: And this one by David, @m4l700: 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lareon Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 I bought a book a while ago from Ronald Watson In his sale It's an old Japanese book on mon and has hundreds upon hundreds of Mon in there and their derivatives. (Excuse the purple lighting in the photos) I'm quite happy to look up any for anyone that they can't find any info on. Just @ me and I'll reply 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 4 hours ago, Lareon said: hundreds upon hundreds of Mon Wow Tony! Does the book give the old family names they came from or is it just a description of what the image is, like "5 stars", etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 I think I once had a paperback reprint of this book "Heian Monkan" and it was very good, but no, it does not give the name linkages to each mon (if the same as the book I had). Regards, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 There is no one perfect book on the subject, although some do offer a few family names for each Mon. There are several internet sites too of varying helpfulness. Once you get a handful of possible family names, you can then look each of them up, in old and new printed/internet sources to narrow the field and try to find a close and/likely match. Say for example your Mon book says the Ishikawa family used this Mon (or a variety of it) then in order to to double-check that, you can use J. Wiki under ‘Ishikawa’ to see what they say. Or an old 武鑑 Bukan covering the likely time period. Often they do not actually correspond. It’s a labo(u)r of love in a massive spiderweb. ❤️ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lareon Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said: Wow Tony! Does the book give the old family names they came from or is it just a description of what the image is, like "5 stars", etc? As others have said its a giant spider web. Earlier in Japanese history you needed permission to have a Mon and use it but as time went on the system got lax. Also many families had more than one Mon. 4 or 5 just to show allegiances etc etc. But then your mon could change if you were granted the right to use your superiors ( by them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lareon Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 12/13/2021 at 1:04 AM, CarsonSharps said: Has anyone ever seen this one before? Thanks! Carson Here is the closest symbol from my book except that little circle which doesn't fit at all and I think the second character is more like the second photo @SteveM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lareon Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 8/26/2021 at 11:25 PM, MarcoUdin said: Anybody seen one like this? Not so much the design but how it's been applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 Lareon, interesting material! That first one looks right. The little circle may just be a fixing rivet/pin for extra strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 It does look a lot like the one in the book, and I agree with Piers that the circle is a later addition, and not part of the mon. I'm just wondering about the direction (主 is oriented vertically, but on the sword the mon, if it were 主 would be oriented horizontally, which feels weird). Anyway, we are definitely in the right neighborhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted January 9, 2022 Report Share Posted January 9, 2022 The pins on these were molded into the back (if they had them, many are simply brazed), so it would be unusual to see a pin going through the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Dear all, May I ask a question on (I think) a "no-mon" family . I have a sword inscribed on the blade (in English) to 2nd Lt KUME. It HAD a mon, but was picked off before surrender. I presume his name is written using the two kanji I show here. Well, I have never found a "picture" mon for this name Kume....is it most likely that he would have just used the 2 kanji in a circle/oval on the sword? So just asking the mon experienced here...is there a 'picture mon for KUME....I have never found one. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 I did a quick search in Japanese and came up with a list of possible mon for any family named Kume (久米). This screen grab comes from a book on the Kume family. Its a long list of kamon, and includes a lot of old favorites: plum, bamboo, quince, ginger, cloves, tomoe, lines, etc... There is nothing that shows or ranks the most common mon for the Kume family. https://ameblo.jp/yabutsubakime/entry-12628772032.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Wow! Steve...I'm amazed. This will take a while to sort through and at the end, there will now be so many mon that I will still not know which one was on my sword. But that's life - nihonto style! Thanks, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryu2020 Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 A perfect illustration of the folly of trying to associate a mon with any single family... -tch 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 Yes indeed Thomas If we have the mon - which family name goes with it? If we have the name - which mon goes with it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 Sometimes you will see both Mon & family name, pretty rare but as good as you will get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 Ah well, in this case at least I have his name (Kume) rank (2nd Lt.) unit ("Kaede Div". (32nd Div. of the 2nd Army, Southern Area, consisting of the 210, 211, 212 Inf. Regt and support units) under Lt. Gen. Teshima. place/date of surrender (Morotai Is. 9/9/1945 to Gen Blamey Australian I Corps). So, just in case someone is walking past the Diet Library in Tokyo...? Kaede Div is the 'Maple' Div...as it says here (Yellow (Autumn) Leaves). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted February 28, 2022 Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 Any ideas on this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted February 28, 2022 Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 Maru-ni narabiya （Two arrows in circle） https://irohakamon.com/kamon/yumiya/maruninarabiya.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoUdin Posted February 28, 2022 Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 That's a nice design, hopefully a nice blade to match! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted February 28, 2022 Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 Thank you Steve, much appreciated. @MarcoUdin Yes it has a nice old blade with Bo-Hi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryu Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 Hi guys do you know what crest is Igarashi? Tbh I asked my family and we don’t even know lol so I’m wondering if anyone here knows about my family crest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 31, 2022 Report Share Posted May 31, 2022 Hi Ryu, It kind of depends on which Kanji you use 五十嵐? and where in Japan your branch of the family came from originally. Here is an Igarashi page with three of their/your Mon/Kamon. https://ameblo.jp/dra8gon/entry-12271576699.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyG Posted May 31, 2022 Report Share Posted May 31, 2022 Hi guys, wanted to add this mon from my Type 19 parade sword. It looks similar to the Mori crest with crane and its variations, but not quite the same as any I could find. Any idea? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted June 1, 2022 Report Share Posted June 1, 2022 Google 家紋鳩丸 鳩の丸 Andy, try Hato maru or Hato no maru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.