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Help Identity Our Mon.


IJASWORDS

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I'm starting to think this may be a different kind of mon. It doesn't quite match up with any of the Genji Letters, but in a different thread Piers made me aware of a whole new genre of letters, the so-called Angled Kanji letters. There are a few websites that talk about them, but I still can't identify this particular one. These Angled Kanji Mon seem even more obscure than the Genji Letters (though stylistically they look very similar).

 

https://kamon-db.net/portfolio_tag/kakujimon

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Thought I would consolidate some mon being discussed on 2 or 3 other threads, having to do with stars.  And please correct me if one or more of these are something else, but there are some mon having to do with 5 stars, 7 stars, etc on habaki and even a kaigunto tsuba.  Here they are:

 

This one posted by Gareth, @Butch:

F8483B89-CCD1-4703-A0DE-41EDF56BE9D3.thumb.jpeg.6ef4025c949921ddc05315302214d17a.jpeg

 

This one posted by Rob, @robinalexander:

20201201_191310.jpg

 

And this one by David, @m4l700:

Untitled-5.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

I bought a book a while ago from Ronald Watson In his sale 

 

It's an old Japanese book on mon and has hundreds upon hundreds of Mon in there and their derivatives.

(Excuse the purple lighting in the photos)

 

I'm quite happy to look up any for anyone that they can't find any info on.

Just @ me and I'll reply

 

 

 

 

PXL_20220109_000105210.jpg

PXL_20220109_000126814.jpg

PXL_20220109_000113546.jpg

PXL_20220109_000120991.jpg

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There is no one perfect book on the subject, although some do offer a few family names for each Mon.

 

There are several internet sites too of varying helpfulness. 

 

Once you get a handful of possible family names, you can then look each of them up, in old and new printed/internet sources to narrow the field and try to find a close and/likely match.

 

Say for example your Mon book says the Ishikawa family used this Mon (or a variety of it) then in order to to double-check that, you can use J. Wiki under ‘Ishikawa’ to see what they say. Or an old 武鑑 Bukan covering the likely time period. Often they do not actually correspond. It’s a labo(u)r of love in a massive spiderweb. ❤️ 

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5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Wow Tony!  Does the book give the old family names they came from or is it just a description of what the image is, like "5 stars", etc?

 

As others have said its a giant spider web. Earlier in Japanese history you needed permission to have a Mon and use it but as time went on the system got lax. Also many families had more than one Mon. 4 or 5 just to show allegiances etc etc. But then your mon could change if you were granted the right to use your superiors ( by them)

 

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On 12/13/2021 at 1:04 AM, CarsonSharps said:

Has anyone ever seen this one before?

 

Thanks!

 

Carson

 

IMG_5194.thumb.JPG.33588f627b6efaebb38d3fd9c6462898.JPG

 

Here is the closest symbol from my book except that little circle which doesn't fit at all and I think the second character is more like the second photo

@SteveM 

PXL_20220109_124150781.jpg

PXL_20220109_125758907.jpg

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It does look a lot like the one in the book, and I agree with Piers that the circle is a later addition, and not part of the mon. I'm just wondering about the direction (主 is oriented vertically, but on the sword the mon, if it were 主 would be oriented horizontally, which feels weird).

Anyway, we are definitely in the right neighborhood. 

 

 

 

 

genji letters.JPG

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Dear all,

May I ask a question on (I think) a "no-mon" family .

I have a sword inscribed on the blade (in English) to 2nd Lt KUME. It HAD a mon, but was picked off before surrender.

I presume his name is written using the two kanji I show here.

Well, I have never found a "picture" mon for this name Kume....is it most likely that he would have just used the 2 kanji in a circle/oval on the sword?

So just asking the mon experienced here...is there a 'picture mon for KUME....I have never found one.

Regards.

kume.jpg

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I did a quick search in Japanese and came up with a list of possible mon for any family named Kume (久米). This screen grab comes from a book on the Kume family. Its a long list of kamon, and includes a lot of old favorites: plum, bamboo, quince, ginger, cloves, tomoe, lines, etc... There is nothing that shows or ranks the most common mon for the Kume family.

 

https://ameblo.jp/yabutsubakime/entry-12628772032.html

 

 

kume.thumb.JPG.651cdfe1ede372bfbd6bd21422dbcea2.JPG

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Ah well, in this case at least I have his

name (Kume)

rank (2nd Lt.)

unit ("Kaede Div". (32nd Div. of the 2nd Army, Southern Area, consisting of the 210, 211, 212 Inf. Regt and support units) under Lt. Gen. Teshima.

place/date of surrender (Morotai Is. 9/9/1945 to Gen Blamey Australian I Corps).

 

So, just in case someone is walking past the Diet Library in Tokyo...?

 

Shigekuni  Kume 1.jpg

 

Kaede Div is the 'Maple' Div...as it says here (Yellow (Autumn) Leaves).

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Hi guys, wanted to add this mon from my Type 19 parade sword. It looks similar to the Mori crest with crane and its variations, but not quite the same as any I could find. Any idea? Thanks! IMG_3314.thumb.JPG.78e8feab4f51e1fd5efd3df1ab634eb6.JPGIMG_3314-1.jpg.f2e9a5f76dc368525eed9c3d2a38b3dd.jpg

 

 

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