Tutankhamun's meteoric iron dagger

[vajo]

I used some pictures that i found in the internet to have a clue of the hardening line of Tutankhamuns dagger. I'm very impressed of these weapon forged 1300 years BC.

 

What you think has this dagger a hamon? 

 

 

 

The original file is 2366 x 1322 pix if someone want it i must sent it via e-mail.

[Stephen]

Cant say for sure its hamon but i do enjoy

Your talent. Man of many hats, good show!

[ROKUJURO]

Chris,

this dagger was forged long before the iron age, and thus the techniques of heat-treatment of steel were not known. We can assume that the meteoritic iron was heated and forged roughly into the desired shape as cold forging would have probably caused the iron to crack. The rest of the shaping was certainly a long grinding process. 

Meteorites can have very different composition, but they usually don't contain carbon in a form that makes a steel alloy. The high nickel content is difficult to handle and requires some homogenization. 

So all in all, most (if not all) meteoritc iron cannot be hardened if used in a pure form. This is of course different if you use meteoritic iron together with a high-carbon steel in a damascus billet. 

[paul griff]

Hello Chris,

Certainly looks like it would have a hamon....Not bad seeing as mainstream archaeology maintain that the ancient Egyptians used bronze tools to construct fantastic creations that cannot be replicated today.....My youngest son is an archaeologist and he won’t engage in my theories anymore....

Regards,

Paul..

[raynor]

I saw king Tuts treasure in Egypt years ago. While I do not remember that dagger I do remember other pieces especially the mask. It is a lot smaller then you expect.

 

To this day it remains the most impressive work of art I've seen. The craftmanship is incredible. I would not put it past the ancient Egyptians to have knowledge of iron hardening back then despite what modern theories say. If anything archeology worldwide keeps revealing and rising the bar on the knowledge and skills of the ancients.

[vajo]

I was reading that it was known that egypt has forged iron 3500 years ago. But not weapones. Maybe the dagger was a gift from another culture?

[John A Stuart]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun%27s_meteoric_iron_dagger

[ROKUJURO]

John,

thank you for the link!

I read there: "....However, in the 1980s strong doubts developed after suggestions from archaeo-metallurgists that some early examples of nickel rich iron were produced by the use of terrestrial nickel rich iron ores. To establish meteorite provenance more refined analysis was needed....."

Well, I have my own strong doubts in this respect, as all early iron producing methods are very close to each other and they all lack the necessary high temperatures to produce nickel, even when present in the ore. Bloomery furnaces cannot provide alloys as a liquid (molten) state of the metals would be necessary for this task.

A bloomery furnace can reach temperatures as high as 1.300°C, while iron melts at 1.538°C  and nickel at 1.455°C.

Therefore we can assume that the "Metal sent from the Gods" was indeed meteoritic iron and not produced by man. Iron production from iron ore started in some cultures as early as 1.500 B.C. 

[cofor22]

I can chime in a bit regarding meteorite iron and knife blades. As already mentioned the heating and water quenching would not produce hardening. I have made several knife blades from nickel iron meteorite. Edge hardening was done by hammering just as bronze edges are hardened to get the edge sharp and not lose bite too fast. Just the edge is hammered. It can get very sharp but never matching steel. Carbon in meteorites is usually found as graphite nodules but very seldom even as Diamond of type III.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I guess carbonaceous chondrites wouldn't be very useful for forging. And diamonds burn at around 700^oC.

[Apercus]

Tamahagane is produced without melting the iron to a liquid and carbon is introduced through carburization of the iron sand in the atmosphere of the tatara to produce steel. Nickel rich iron ore sands can be used to produce a steel that will harden with heat treatment even with relatively early primitive technology. There are specialists in archeotechnology who have made legitimate suggestions that not all ancient blades were made from meteorite iron. We could perhaps find out if the archeologists were ok with having their precious artifacts cut up and tested. I’m open to the possibility of some of the dates being pushed back a bit. Perhaps time will tell.

[cofor22]

If meteorite iron is heated, forged, carbonized and afterwards heated and water quenched. There would be nothing left of the original crystalline structure. Then only traces of rare elements like iridium would reveal the origin as extraterrestial.

 

Conny F

[ROKUJURO]

.....Edge hardening was done by hammering just as bronze edges are hardened to get the edge sharp and not lose bite too fast. Just the edge is hammered. It can get very sharp but never matching steel......

Conny,

 

hardening and work hardening are not the same as sharpness. You can bring an iron knife to very good sharpness, but it will not hold the edge. Harder metals or alloys allow for a longer lasting edge.

 

The Egyptians had bronze razor knives, and they were work hardened just as you describe it.

[Tom Darling]

Another culture is correct, not from this world. 

 

 

Tom D.

[ROKUJURO]

Tom,

the use of meteoritic iron is known from some cultures on earth (Inuit, Malay, probably Celtic people as well). No probability of having been 'made in Space'. 

[cofor22]

The Egyptians had bronze razor knives, and they were work hardened just as you describe it.

Which is exactly how I have done with knife blades made from meteorite. Work hardening is what I guess has been done to the egyptian knife in question.

 

Conny F