Soshu possibly?

[Tom Darling]

I doubt your sword is o-suriage, it looks ubu to me. Peace.

 

 

Tom D.

[Utopianarian]

An interesting thing to add is on the back of the Mune it is not Iori Mune but rounded. I think the term is maru Mune

[Utopianarian]

Finish polish on Soshu or maybe Soden Bizen. Graining in hada appears much more vivid. Itame hada and some burl mokume. Hamon shows more activity lower into Hamon (very difficult to capture in pics).

[TheGermanBastard]

May I ask who polished the sword?

[Utopianarian]

Finish polish by David Hofhine. I am happy with his work.

[TheGermanBastard]

Thank you. I wouild have guessed David Hofhine fron the images.

[Utopianarian]

More photos

[Utopianarian]

The polisher said the original length of this sword was prob around 33 inches!!

[Blazeaglory]

Very stout looking blade!

[Utopianarian]

Yes Hoping maybe late Nanbokucho

[Utopianarian]

Should I get this blade repolished when I send it for papers. I am more knowledgeable regarding polishing and had the blade just finish polished a couple years ago by David Hofhine which was just finish polish which removed very little metal. I know when being judged especially when eventually trying to attain higher level papers they will know the difference between a Hofhine polish and Jimmy Hayashi polish. Once again the geometry of the blade is still intact I had just finish polish done at that time. I am assuming the blade is prob Soden Bizen or Soshu blade hoping. 

[Utopianarian]

More pics

[Rivkin]

I saw blades declined on the basis of polish, but my personal guess would be this one will paper. With boshi photographed more can be said about the likely attribution.

[Utopianarian]

Here is best pics I can get of boshi. The original boshi was quite obscure and hard to make out-see previous pics of original boshi in this post before polish. After polish one was visible. I asked David was there a boshi there or did you make an artificial one. He said the original tempering on the blade wasn’t the best but the original boshi was intact. I know a blade of this age has condition issues. The boshi is the part that makes the attribution difficult on this one.

[Rivkin]

Thanks! Always glad for an opportunity to make prediction for a blade being submitted. Feels like mid Momoyama to 1650, likely the early portion of the interval.

Regarding the school - so many similar ones. Can be along the lines of Fujiwara Nobutaka. Can be Fuyuhiro.

[Utopianarian]

Thank you for your assessment and attribution. In hand and viewing the blade it appears much older especially by the nakago. I have a few blades from around that era and definitely there is a marked difference in their appearance in a side to side comparison. Hard to describe but they just seem so much more crisp and different in structure/shape and patina established on nakago

[Rivkin]

Well, I've been proven wrong many times before...

[Brian]

I'd submit as is.

[Utopianarian]

Thank you both for your guidance it means a lot to me sharing your knowledge on this subject 

[Stephen]

Yes as above..... Please don't remove any more steel.

[Utopianarian]

I have been trying to research this one for some time now. I have come to the conclusion that this must be a Hankei mumei blade. It has all the features of Soshu style work and the running Itame and burl Omokume pattern is identical to the works of Hankei. The activity in the hamon is similar as well. The overall shape of the blade didn’t quite set well with me. It didn’t quite have the shape of the older blades and seemed a little off. Here are some comparison pics of the running itame and omokume pattern. The first pic is Hankei

[Surfson]

George, there was consensus you should submit it to shinsa.  You could have had it back by now and we could have a better informed conversation about your interesting sword.

[Utopianarian]

Bob, You are correct. I do want to send many of the blades I have to shinsa. I missed this years SanFran due to a loss of a Loved one. I also was looking forward to taking a high quality signed Aoe blade with me which wasn’t ready yet for shinsa. I have a few others I want to submit and I guess have been making excuses over the past few years. Also nervous mailing expensive pieces that are hard to prove value for insurance reasons if lost or stolen if mailed to Japan for shinsa. Do you know how I would go about proving value of a blade that has not been authenticated yet for insurance purposes. I can’t just claim an assumed price before mailing without receipts, documentation etc.. or Shinsa which is the point…

[Jean]

Dark hada, makes me think of northern provinces. Norishige/Tametsugu lineage is a possibility or Uda school.

[Rivkin]

I shall be mean!

Maybe I'll regret it once it papers to Norishige. But what's life without being mean and taking risks. I am near impossible to tolerate on better days and today I am in pain.

The story repeats time and time again.

Someone buys one, two, three, five blades.

Asks for advice.

Rejects what he gets. He has an expert friend, he saw early blades, what he has looks like photos of the famous blades he found online. The big issue - we are talking about 5 blades, 300K each, bought for 600$ on average. How do you convince the post office the package needs to be insured for 1.5mil??? 

 

In the real world: there is indeed a chance, but its admittedly small.

Sugata is strange for anything early. 

Hamon is nioi based with some nie foaming at the edge.

Jigane is not continued in the hamon. That's what Echizen Soshu is known for - distinctive belts of nie in hamon which are linked to jigane. Instead hamon has sort of clouds like appearance. Good news: unlikely Norishige, but one can aim for Go.

Yet the jigane is coarse, it lacks chikei and ji nie, while at the same time there is very little nie in the hamon. Boshi is rather bland, no hakkikake, nothing. The most interesting thing is how its width collapses and calms down at yokote.

That's not the true Soshu way. Early works can have a simple boshi, maybe it would do yakitsume and full Yamato style appearance. But it is not really the style here.

Its a sort of attractive sword and is indeed made after Etchu Tametsugu or Go.

It can be Hankei, but that would be on really lesser portion of his creations.

Can be Etchu Tametsugu, VERY broadly defined... 

 

But on the other hand looks very much like one of many late Muromachi+ smiths. Fuyuhiro, Uda, Kaga, Shitahara etc. Can be one of a few people who forged such hada in shinto.

 

Just imagine the smirk with which you can prove arrogant pricks like me wrong. Shinsa it. We know you want it.

P.S. We all been there with a precious blade or two that no one else understands.

[jsv]

 

 

It went from this nice colour to that dark, well dark finish. I think the original polish was more close to the smiths intentions so 

stay away from non professional polishers. In future you will save money and get a better polish from start.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Not sure if having it polished by a non-traditional polisher before being papered was the right approach, the original polish was completely acceptable and in many ways better. Fingers crossed when you do send it for Shinsa it's something decent.

 

In terms of having it valued for insurance when sending that's where having a proper appraisal by a qualified Togishi would lend some credibility to a claims report. 

[Utopianarian]

Thank you all for the excellent advice and take on this one. Tough to pin down as it appears drastically different in alternative lighting sources affecting color of jigane and appearance of hamon. Yes I have learned traditional togishi is the only way to go. I was too ignorant and thought I knew what I was doing. I have leaned many of you through your collective experience and wisdom have seen every scenario and outcome thru many years dealing with this kind of stuff. Here is another pic and of course it looks drastically different than others

[Utopianarian]

Kirill, You are absolutely correct regarding boshi. It also did not seem right to me and didn’t match the rest of the blade and what you would expect. I have my doubts with the polisher when I asked if the original boshi was still there. I believe the boshi was added and looks cosmetic to me. Look at the first 3 pics attached which were original before polish and the last 2 pics after polish. The first pics before polish look more appropriate for the rest of blade and making a better guess.

[Ooitame]

Only way to get a best opinion is to send to shinsa, NBTHK would be the way to go. I am thinking Muromachi myself. But one never can be sure with pictures alone. Although, some here get a few spot on or very close. So, yes send it to shinsa as is and best of luck.