Aluminium Saya

[IJASWORDS]

This topic has to some extent been explored before , but wondering if any new light has been thrown on the aluminium saya.

Particularly, when was it introduced (my oldest is mid 1942), was it offered by a limited number of sword makers (considering their rarity ), or was it always available as a light weight (more expensive ) option? 

Aluminium to my mind was a strategic material (aircraft engineering ) , electrical energy intensive to manufacture it , and difficult to weld without specialist equipment . So the only thing it had going for it was lightness and possibly rust resistance (but so did painted wood that was widely used as a saya material). 

The down side was that it dented easily , and paint adhesion was poor . 

Any information would be appreciated . 

 

 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

It would be interesting to see the average quality of swords with aluminium saya, they more often than not have good quality koshirae from memory. My one has pierced tsuba, mon, 8 seppa etc seen on early good quality mounts consistent with late 30's.

[IJASWORDS]

Good observation John,  mine also have blades by good sword smiths, pierced tsuba and higher quality fittings . 

[Shamsy]

I don't believe there is any new primary evidence, so I can only go with my earlier conjecture that they are a private purchase 'upgrade'. My mantetsu has an aluminium saya. The koshirae on that sword is fantastic, one of the nicest I've seen (for standard military style fit out).

[Bruce Pennington]

Neil,

Here's an Autumn 1940 Mantetsu in aluminum saya:

[Bruce Pennington]

Another one Neil, all the paint gone, and even a bullet hole in the saya! A ‘44 blade in it.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29400-help-needed-identifying-gunto-sword-wwii/

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A waki with an undated blade, made by Masayasu of Bishu.

Here: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1164369-Help-with-A-Short-Samurai-Sword

[Dave R]

I would describe it as a short Katana. I know the convention about anything under 24 inches being a Wakizashi, but original Edo/samurai era rules were clear that Wakizashi for Samurai could only be 20 inches in blade length, later amended to 18 inches, and a commoners Wakizashi could be no more 14 inches long. Samurai katana could not be more than 28 inches long. You can even see this in surviving wakizashi that show evidence of post manufacture reduction in length to fit the new regulations.

 

 22 inches was within regulation length for a new made Shin-Gunto, and old blades down to 21'5 were acceptable in the sword buying programme of 1942.

 

I strongly suspect that the modern convention is the result of post war Japanese authorities redefining sword lengths to save blades from the occupation destruction programme.

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Two other good quality swords with Aluminium Saya, one is a Hira Zukuri Uchigatana at 22" Nagasa:

[ChrisW]

You had me at uchigatana John! A lovely blade.

 

Isn't the term for blades between 22 and 24" called kodachi?

[Dave R]

1 hour ago, ChrisW said:

You had me at uchigatana John! A lovely blade.

 

Isn't the term for blades between 22 and 24" called kodachi?

 

Uchigatana is a commonly used term for these shorter swords. I have also heard them called "Shirato". 

 

 To quote  "Kodachi are from the early Kamakura period (1185–1333) and are in the shape of a tachi. Kodachi are mounted in tachi style but with a length of less than 60 cm"

 

 I strogly suspect that we use most of these terms in a different manner to any Japanese, collector or non collector.

[ChrisW]

From my understanding, uchigatana are more about blade curvature rather than length. An uchigatana's curvature is most strong near the nagako with a straighter edge towards the kissaki. I have an uchigatana that is about 24.75" nagasa. The other defining feature of an uchigatana is it's original intention: to be a cheaply produced and disposable blade used by lower-class foot soldiers. That certainly doesn't mean they cannot be higher quality, but they were workhorse pieces meant to be easily replaced. However, due to this, many uchigatana are cut down due to damage/later made into wakizashi. They are also considered a transitional form between tachi and katana, with katana replacing uchigatana entirely.

 

I've also heard the argument that they are a mounting style as well. Information seems sparse and confused on the subject, but I do know that many uchigatana exceed wakizashi length.

 

Incidentally, many uchigatana I have seen are also rather thin blades (that probably goes along with their cheap production cost).

[PNSSHOGUN]

Has anyone found dated examples earlier than 1940 yet?

[Dave R]

"I strongly suspect that we use most of these terms in a different manner to any Japanese, collector or non collector.".... I noticed that Mr Ohmura refers to traditional swords not mounted in Military mounts as Uchigatana.

[Shamsy]

My mantetsu with aluminum saya is 1941, so not pre-40s.