Project gunto help

[kotkinjs1]

So I came into owning a gunto I knew would require some work...I was able to purchase it for "project" price. What I can tell so far is that the tsuka isn't original to the blade....the hole through the grip doesn't align with the hole in the tang. It would require about a half inch-worth of seppas to make it fit. So, the question is, how to you get a right sized tsuka? I guess you have to ask a seller to measure exactly how far down the hole is? Or....drill a new hole?? That seems horrendous but I guess that's why I've seen tsuka with more than one hole? I've marked in blue where the hole should be for this tsuka to fit.

 

Also, the Kabuto gane doesn't seem to be original either since the hole for the sarute doesn't align to the hole in the grip. Are those not 'standard' sizes? Different measurements from tip of the tang to hole in the kabuto gane I guess?

 

Finally, I know it needs the locking mechanism for the tsuka to lock into the Saya. I'm almost afraid to ask now but does that come in different lengths/sizes also? Or will any old one do?

 

Also, can anyone translate the signature? I'm most appreciative for any help the group can offer!

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Jeremy,

The mei is maybe Yoshida and I'm sure Hidemitsu.  As for the tsuka, easier and more satisfying in the long run if you sell this for what you can get and buy a Gunto that doesn't need all the work and parts.  Probably less expensive also.

Grey

[Logan09]

I'm with grey. I myself have been looking to piece together mine for about 7 months now. It's going to cost me almost $200 to buy the parts if I can find them and I only need a tsuba, fuchi and some remaining seppa.

 

Does the Tsuka line up with the mekugi-ana? It might be the correct one, your blade may have had 8 Seppa originally (some were about as thick as a nickel) I have no clue what is going on with the Kabutogane. The hole seems unusually high in your Tsuka. This is an easy fix though, just remove the Kabutogane, remove the Samegawa(probably separate pieces) fill hole, replace Samegawa, redrill hole.

 

Also, yes the locking retainers aren't all the same. You can get by by filing one if you need to. Just make sure it is longer than shorter.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Each Gunto is a handfit item, while some things may fit others will be a maddening exercise in futility unless the stars align or you start doing alterations. I would cut my losses and try for a new Tsuka, the Saya is the hardest to find a correct fit for but for most Gunto the mekugi ana is often in roughly the same area.  

[Dave R]

 The seppa are not the issue here, 8 seppa are not unusual, and some of them can be very chunky indeed. The mismatch with the kabutogane is odd.... Coupled with the fresh look to the ito, I think this has been a donor sword, that has been remodelled in an attempt to make it saleable after stripping of parts. 

 

 In my opinion, probably worth the effort, but as I can see, others don't think so. Up to you in the end. If it's a Showato there is a good chance of finding parts that will fit ok, it's the old blades that are the headache.

[Mark C]

Quick way to check if the Tsuka is original is to put the peg into the hole through the tsuka and see if it is a good fit. If it wobbles around like a stone in a bucket, It probably isn't original.

 

Like Dave says, 8 seppa is possible and if the tsuka is original it would be fairly easy to sort out.

 

Just my 2 pennies worth.

[dwmc]

All of the above is excellent advice...After looking closely at the kubuto gane, I think it is actually the original, only the the sarute barrel is missing and it  has been pushed lower on the tsuka. It appears the ito is a bit "bunched" near the top as a result. Having said this, the tsuka is fairly decent war time era, age appropriate staining , etc. However, as you know, not the tsuka which fits your sword.

 

My advice would be, as you are in Florida is to visit either the Tampa or Orlando Japanese sword shows with sword in hand. Normally there are folks with a variety of gunto parts which may fit your sword fairly closely. Possibly even a trade for your present tsuka for a better fitting one. Ordering online, hoping for accurate measurements can be disappointing and costly. No better way than sword in hand at a sword show...

 

Your lucky to be within a few miles of two shows.

 

 

Dave M.

[Bruce Pennington]

Agree with the bunching, shoved down too far idea on the kabutogane. And I’d add enough seppa as stated. Sounds like a simple fix.

[Logan09]

Alright, after looking at the Kabutogane and Ito again I can see the Ito is bunched up/ overlapping in some spots.

 

But why are we assuming this isn't the correct Tsuka. The one in the photos is cracked to heck and split. It's very possible it's sliding that far forward. I have personally halved 3 Gunto tsuka and repaired 2. You'd be surprised how non traditionally 2 were carved out for the nakago.

 

Someone probably hammered(slammed it on the floor) the Tsuka onto the nakago. Would explain the Kabutogane.

[Dave R]

Alright, after looking at the Kabutogane and Ito again I can see the Ito is bunched up/ overlapping in some spots.

 

But why are we assuming this isn't the correct Tsuka. The one in the photos is cracked to heck and split. It's very possible it's sliding that far forward. I have personally halved 3 Gunto tsuka and repaired 2. You'd be surprised how non traditionally 2 were carved out for the nakago.

 

Someone probably hammered(slammed it on the floor) the Tsuka onto the nakago. Would explain the Kabutogane.

 

 Agreed. It's worth remembering that a lot of these were made in workshops and by people who had never made swords before the demand drew them into the business.

 

 I have 5 of these dismounted Tsuka that I use as patterns, or as spares, and there is a big variation in detail and quality of workmanship.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Quality drops off seriously around 41/42, the early Type 94 and Type 98 can be extraordinarily high quality and refined in terms of Tsuka and Ito, it would be an interesting comparison to put a split Type 94 Tsuka up against a later war one.