Hanabishi tsuba

[kissakai]

Hi

I seemed to have picked a couple of these just lately and it is a design I like

Anyone what to have a go at giving an approximate date for each one

Any other info welcome

 

T270 - 81 x 81 x 4.8mm

 

 

T296 - 75 x 73 5.3mm

 

 

T330 83 x 84 x 4.9mm

 

 

Grev

 

 

[Henry Wilson]

Mid to late Edo? Mainly coz they seem to be in good condition and seem to have been

Mounted .

 

I like the 2nd and 3rd in particular. The ears are nice.

 

The 1st and 2nd rims are bold and makes me think Akasaka.

 

Just some out loud thoughts over coffee to stimulate activity

[Robin]

I'd say Owari or Kyo-Sukashi. Muromachi? 

I like them all...last one is my favorite for sure.

[FlorianB]

I’ve seen examples of this design papered to Kyo-sukashi, probably Genroku to late Edo-period when design and rim became bolder executed.

There are similar Akasaka-pieces, too, often easy to recognize by a smaller kogai-hitsu-ana.

Concerning the sizes and the overall appearance I suppose #1 and #3 to be Kyo-sukashi-style, about mid Edo period, #2 Akasaka-style from the same time.

 

However - just a cautious guess.

Florian

[Henry Wilson]

Nice observations above. Would Kyo sukashi not be expected to have the koban-shaped seppa dai?

[FlorianB]

Right, but as always there are exceptions from the rule.

In some cases depending on the design other seppa-dai-forms were produced (like those above).

Florian

[Henry Wilson]

Thanks, Florian.

 

It leads to the question, was seppa dai shape dependent on:

-the tsuba design

-the koshirae design,

-both

-something else

 

I know this a potential hijack but my curiosity is getting the better of me.

[FlorianB]

Henry,

 

generally the seppa-dai mirrors the saya cross section but there are enough examples showing freely interpreted seppa-dai (even Tsuba without a seppa dai ).

Here’s a picture of a Kyo-sukashi from Mr. Tsuruta’s Aoi-Museum-site (if I remember correctly) in which the geometric motif determines the form of the seppa-dai:



So at least there are less rules but mere customs so every smith could put his his own ideas into a Tsuba.

 

Florian

[MauroP]

Hi Grev, I'd also would go for Kyō-sukashi, the first one possibly pre-Edo, the other two mid to late Edo.
Here below two papered examples:

[FlorianB]

Grev,

forget to ask: what about the mimi? Kaku, Ko-niku, maru? Could help to specify the origin.

Florian

[kissakai]

Do these help

 

T270

 

T296

 

T330

 

 

Grev

 

[kissakai]

As I like this design I asked Bob Haynes about them but bear in mind his comments are from photos

I originally thought this to Owari but Bob Haynes stated the sukashi is too thin and delicate for the Owari school and attributed it to the ko Shoami school.
These are all (ko) Shoami.

T270 Circa: 1550

T296 Circa: 1575

T330 Circa: 1575

To be within 25 years so I wonder if I dated them all circa 150 or 1575
Maybe there are suttle differences that I do not see

I also started this post because of my error of attributing them to the Owari school
I still wonder about Kyo sukashi!
Maybe the last two are nearer 1650

Nothing easy as usual

[FlorianB]

Opinions differ, but definitively not Owari.

Mr Haynes obviously refers to the later late Muromachi-period and the beginning of the Momoyama-period 1573 (1574 by other sources), the latter period well known for more flamboyant styled Tsuba. So I would take the named years as a classification into this era.

Certainly this design has been invented about the mentioned years but has been also reproduced in later times, so a temporal attribution isn’t as simple.

Seeing the mimi I agree with the Ko-Shoami attribution of the second one. Ko-Shoami-Tsuba show sometimes different sizes in the hitsu-ana, too.

Concerning the first and the third one, with its cleverly done mokko-shape and the large size, which is more typical for Kyo-style but for Shoami, I stick to my Kyo-sukashi attribution although it could be early Edo-period by the pictures of the mimi. Because of the very exact geometric execution of the first one I think it's younger, about Genroku.

But without examinig the original pieces my opinion is only speculation based on textbook knowledge.

Florian
 

[kissakai]

Thanks Florian

Some nice details in your reply

If Robert returns to the UK I would show these to him

 

 

Grev