Calling All Tsuba Guys - Real Edo or Fantastic fake

[stenbar]

Anyone care to cast their vote?

 

[remzy]

Ive seen it aswell and i was surprised by the near perfect condition, but what makes you think it is a fake?

[stenbar]

Here's the pro's:

1) From Japan and condition appears nearly perfect.

2) The seller hasn't listed a bunch of others in this perfect condition.

3) No obvious chinese-style poor casting mistakes

 

Here's what's causing me doubts:

1) This is an ebay item and the seller usually sells poorer quality items

2) Condition seems to be perfect on the inlay, but has some marks/scratches/aging around the nakago ana

3) The "brightness" of the inlay would make me think it's been added recently.

4) I've never seen one like this before (but I'm pretty new at this).

 

That said, if this is a fake, it's scary good.

[Hermes]

1) no bids after fours days on a seven day auction

 

2) NR, it seems to me $399 would be a very low price if real

 

3) looks new, too good to be true comes to mind

 

4) color of the iron/seppa-dai looks off to me, too black IMO

 

If it is a fake, very troubling to say the least.

[Ford Hallam]

For starters I think the use of the word fake in this instance is not really applicable. The technique used for the decoration is nunome-zogan ( ie; cloth weave overlay ) This is quite a demanding process and definitely not something someone can just "decide to have a go" with. This particular pattern is not uncommon on the Meiji period export wares made by a studio called Komai.( There were a couple of other studios doing similar work also ) The workshop was based in Kyoto and evidence seems to suggest that the artisans who made these articles came originally from Higo province.

 

It looks to me as though this tsuba has never been mounted and whether you want to call this a tsuba or merely a tsuba shaped object is a moot point :? . The hitsu-ana are nicely shaped but do cut into the seppa-dai area a bit more than is usual. The nakago-ana is also a bit small, too high and skew. In my opinion though, this is a genuine and honest piece of work. The condition is not particularly surprising to me. I have probably cleaned more than a couple of hundred pieces of this sort of work and as often as not the condition was remarkably good. It should also be noted that high purity gold doesn't tarnish ( this is why it is so desirable :D ) so regardless of it's age the gold can appear brand new, all it takes it a gentle buff with a cotton cloth.

 

Having said all this my feeling is that this is not Edo period, possibly Meiiji and quite likely from the Komai workshops. It is ( as I've already suggested ), in my opinion, a genuine piece of work.

 

Another possibility is that it was made in the last 50 years by one of the students of Tahei Yonemitsu. He was a National living treasure from Kumamoto ( Higo ) and he specialised in this technique. He died circa 1972...I think.

 

Just my thoughts while having my first cuppa this morning

 

regards,

 

Ford

[Ford Hallam]

Incidentally, it might be accurate to describe this as a kenjo tsuba. These were highly elaborate nunome zogan tsuba apparently given as gifts and not really intended to be mounted. This design is not by any means unique and Edo period versions of this sort of tsuba are not at all uncommon.

[Stephen]

moved to ebay with the link.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tsuba-Japanese-GENU ... dZViewItem

[Bungo]

Ford,

some may call this a Christian tsuba ?

 

looks legit to me.

Just because the condition is pristine doeswn't mean it's a fake.

When I was young, I bought a few Song Dynasty ceramics with cracks and all as my " antique advisor " ( read .. the seller ) told me they " show age ".

That is until i went to the art Institute of Chicago and saw for myself there are Song Dynasty ceramica that do not " show age " at all.

 

milt

[James]

Has anybody dealt with Cool Nippon before? I sent him a offer a bit cheaper than the $399 it didn't sell for and he exploded at me telling me that he has added my name to his blocked bidders list because I sent annoying messages again and again.

 

This is the first time I have ever contacted him... perhaps he's just having a bad day.

[Stephen]

think we just found MacStarr...or not?

 

all his website tsuba are repos dont think id trust his others auctions.

[Guido]

think we just found MacStarr...or not?

Probably not:

 

The box below contains the User IDs that this member has used on eBay.

User ID Effective Date End Date

coolnippon Jan-04-07 Present

moeyodragons Apr-19-04 Jan-04-07

[Bungo]

" perhaps he's just having a bad day. "

 

most likely.

Somestimes as seller, I received very strange " questions/requests ". I try to answer politely or sometimes I do it with humor.

May be cool-nippon felt "insulted " with the low offer ?

 

milt

[Curran]

Ford has posted a very complete answer on this one. I learned a bit of new info from his post. Thank you F.H..

 

The short answer is that it is late Edo or Meiji and though condition is good and it is shiny-sparkly, it is not exactly a great piece of work. $399 seems very high to my frugal nature, and your contact with him makes the seller sound a bit of a crazy.

 

My opinion: For $700 to $800 you can get some very good tsuba of leagues better workmanship and artistic merit.

[Aloof Pegasus]

Stephen

 

When you say all his tsuba are repros do you mean literally all, because some of them are listed as being papered?

 

Philip

[Stephen]

i think that was after looking at his web page , if im wrong sorry.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Curran,

 

thank you, I'm pleased someone found my little ramble of interest

 

cheers, Ford

[Aloof Pegasus]

Stephen

 

You had me worried there. Thought maybe there were fake papers out there on top of all the other landmines.

 

In the proposed beginners section currently under discussion cud we include a tsuba kantei, is it repro or real and why? Or is that too difficult from just a photo?

 

Since it wud probably be boring fr senior members perhaps we cud set a time limit for posts fm beginners then someone knowledgable can post the reasons why it cud be considered repro.

 

Philip