Lightweight Katana

[Alex A]

In contrast to heavy blades from the late Muromachi period etc, occasionally we see lighter blades. Im not talking about overly polished blades, just blades from the Edo period that where particularly slender to start with.

 

I see no reason why smiths might not get a request for a custom order lighter blade, just wondering if there is any evidence anywhere to suggest this is the case ?. A thinner blade, lighter.

 

From a street fight/duel type scenario, im assuming a lighter blade would be preferred, as lets face it, only takes one strike.

 

Maybe one for the iaido guys.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Blades were carried day to day, a huge heavy sword is awkward during the daily milk run. Thinner, lighter blades cut better through soft targets (people) and are quicker to draw.

[Alex A]

Thanks John. With regards Edo blades, ive not given much notice to the thickness up until recently.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Alex,

 

By all accounts the Satsuma samurai preferred their swords in the Keicho shinto sugata with lots of hira niku: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Satsuma_Motohira_Katana.html

 

So I guess martial spirit/ philosophy comes into how well hung a particular samurai wanted to be.

 

I once had a look at one of Clive Sinclair's blades that had two cutting tests and was very slender and light. His view was that the second test was done after a hi was cut in order to make sure that it was still able to cut adequately, maybe owned by an older samurai who couldn't swing the sword as well as he once could. Also, I remember a sword on Nihonto Antiques a few years ago that had a tsuka that was weighted to bring the balance closer to the hand on what was quite a long blade and that might have been for the same reason.

 

So to the original question: I suspect that physique, age, state of health and maybe school of fencing also played a part in choice of sword and old f@rts might well choose something a little lighter than the young bucks. 

[Stefan]

The school of fencing did have an strong influence  of the shape and weight  of the blades. By  example. Satsuma blades, thick, heavy, strong blades.  The reason  for this ? The  jigen ryu kenjutsu requires  extreme strong blades. In the  old days, while Samurai did their training with sharp swords, they used also trees for their training. Today there are still cuts visible on them. The Jigen ryu was most popular during the Edo Period, and just in that time, the Satsuma toko developed their style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVSONNESfyE

[PNSSHOGUN]

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/episodes.html

 

Episode 4 is pertinent.

[Dave R]

 Some time back I came across a reference to the Edo police (Machi-kata Doshin?) carrying lighter blades than normal. Whether this was due to carrying cheap tired blades, or purpose made light blades I don't know. I can see police needing/wanting a fast blade, and one that won't cut as deep, aiming to disable rather than maim or kill.  

[Lance]

I don't know if it's exactly what you're asking about  but I've seen certain slender/lighter swords referred to as worn by the nobility.

While swords carried by the bushi were regular fighting fighting swords in various shapes and sizes  the nobility had blades that were more slender and antique in shape.  Bigger than what I would think of as Ko-dachi  but still  small. Something like a 3/4 or a tiny bit larger but the dimensions were to scale.  I've seen a few that may  fit this description but if memory serves they were either Koto or Taisho periods.  I don't remember any being Edo period. 

The one that stood out most was years ago, Taisho period,  shallowi-sh curve, but with a nice up swept tang, slightly raised shinogi. small ko kissaki  twin gomabashi grooves,  straight narrow hamon.  Don't remember the smith, but seemed very well made. My sense was it was created to be something very graceful and refined rather than light and quick. 

 

 

Sad because I bought a nice Tanto from the dealer who had the Taisho sword I mentioned above at a local PA gun show,  and when I noticed it he offered it to me  for a good price, but didn't have the money to cover the cost. He said don't worry about it, take it home and  pay me next couple times you see me. I thanked him for the more than kind offer but didn't want to owe too much at the time so said no,  maybe I'd have money next time I see you, but later it was  gone.   Should have bought it, was really interesting and would even just like to see it again to see how it held up compared to my memory of it, quality wise. 

 

Regards,

Lance  

[Ken-Hawaii]

You're right, Alex. Both sword schools I train in prefer lighter blades that aren't too short. Although I was never able to pin down either Sensei on a specific length, my 2.35-shaku blade seemed to get the most grunts of approval. In MJER, especially, we resheath after almost every cut, as that gives us the benefit of keeping our opponents from knowing what we'll do next, so short & light blades are the key.

[ChrisW]

I have a mumei muromachi (I think) blade in my collection that is particularly light and slender, very small kissaki. I've shared it here before, but it didn't elicit much response. I'll have to take some better pictures and share it again.

[dwmc]

I've attended dozens of gun shows and several sword shows through the years. I will openly admit, my interest in Japanese swords greatly exceeds my knowledge of such. However, I certainly do not apologize for my lack of superior knowledge due to the fact, the more I study the subject, it seems only to reinforce my feeling of inadequacy due to the complexity of the subject.

 

Several years ago a gentleman at a gun show had Japanese swords for sale. I noticed one of them was in Shin Gunto mountings, but what appeared to be a very scaled down (light) version of Gunto. The blade its self did not appear to be modern, possibly Edo or older. The fittings were exact Gunto, but were obviously custom made for this particular sword. As often is the case when I come across a sword like this, the sellers are as much at a loss for explanation as I am. He was not asking a tremendous amount for the sword, but due to the fact I had never seen a Gunto such as this, nor since, I didn't purchase it.

 

Just curious as if anyone has knowledge of light weight swords in Shin Gunto mountings?

 

Dave M.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Dave they did in fact make lightweight parade Shin Gunto, there is an example in Jim Dawsons book that has two variants. Very rare.

[Dave R]

There is in fact a thread  on another site  about this very thing.  http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/light-weight-shingunto-686745-2/

[Alex A]

Thanks all for your replies so far, appreciated.

 

I have a blade here that dates to around 1750, typical length, but slender, likely was never more than 6mm Kasane,  that's what got me a wondering about original weight. Lighter, but still more than adequate for the job.

 

Never thought about it much before, i guess for the most part it was a one size fits all from most schools, but then the fussy customers with their exceptional requests about weight and length.

 

John, id totally forgot about Keicho Shinto sugata, i do wish info would stay upstairs.

 

Cheers all.