Type 94 Removable Ashi

[Bruce Pennington]

For those who may never have had one of these in hand. I just picked this one up, unfortunately the seller didn't have the screw-on top ring, but it's cool to just have one! The removable collar has a "15" stamped on the underside. Don't see a number anywhere else on it. Thought it was interesting to see the maker had lined the inside with leather. The botton of the hinge joint is so well made that the seam almost doesn't show when all closed up.

 

[reeder]

I just went through half a dozen w/ multiple swords I own, they either don't fit, or if they do fit finish & wear is off.  It was a huge bummer.

I didn't notice a leather liner, more clothe on the ones I went through, or no liner at all.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Bruce you can take the top off another Haikan and use it on this one, though it's tricky because many are rusted/painted shut.

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, I hope to scout around and find one.

 

Interesting to hear of the variety, but then like all things gunto, every manufacturer had its own variations.

[IJASWORDS]

Hey Bruce , finding matching components is difficult . Got a couple of '94's, and some lose  examples . There is to my knowledge 5 types of attachment methods . 

[Bruce Pennington]

Ohmura only shows three:

[IJASWORDS]

If you look at Ohmura, his first type is really two, that makes four. The fifth one I know (and have), is similar to his type 2 but the whole top section is one cast unit , and no removable screw. 

That to me makes my five . 

[Bruce Pennington]

If you look at Ohmura, his first type is really two, that makes four. The fifth one I know (and have), is similar to his type 2 but the whole top section is one cast unit , and no removable screw. 

That to me makes my five .

 

Neil,

Don’t know if you have the time, but I would enjoy seeing examples of all five.

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce , without out taking them off the swords here are four types , the one I don't have is the brass pipe Ohmura type 1. They are all on old blades, thick pierced tsuba, and mons in Interesting places. The sword at the bottom has provenance to a Lt General (tassel removed for safe keeping ) . 

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce , without out taking them off the swords here are four types , the one I don't have is the brass pipe Ohmura type 1. They are all on old blades, thick pierced tsuba, and mons in Interesting places. The sword at the bottom has provenance to a Lt General (tassel removed for safe keeping ) .

 

It's interesting that the wear on the top ashi head is greater than on the lower head. The top ones must rub against the belt or something that the lower one doesn't touch.

[reeder]

Maybe the mismatch in wear is more due to the removable ashi being added on rather than being original to the sword.

[Bruce Pennington]

Brandon, I wondered about that idea as well. On a couple of them, the second ashi still has the gold edge paint where the top one doesn’t.

[IJASWORDS]

I could accept that the top sword may have been added (before my time ) , but the other three are definitely original , and all are '94 pattern fittings anyway. So not the end of the world. The bottom sword came with a leather combat saya cover with two hanger cut outs (since fallen apart). I have another old '94 with two hanger cut out but one ashi missing . 

[PNSSHOGUN]

The leather cover must be the only real way to definitely tell if the 2nd hanger is original to the sword or not.

[Guest]

Hi Neil.,

 

Great swords, the kamon in the 3rd picture look to be:

(from the top)

 

1: A working on Gentian flowers and leaves called Rindo Guruma (there is a variation called Hagakure Rindo Guruma, but this would only be discernable as a kamon on clothing as the central five petals are reversed tone i.e lighter than the background flowers).

 

2: Crossed Arrow fletchings within a circle: Maru ni Chigai Ya.

[IJASWORDS]

Malcolm , thank you . 

[reeder]

Top and bottom look added to me. Bottom one looks too big or maybe just angle of photo. Middle 2 look good IMO. Isn’t one of them a Kotani Yasunori?

[IJASWORDS]

How do you know this ? 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Considering the 2nd hangers were mostly for parade or dress use and rarely encountered on field used examples it would make sense that the 2nd hanger would have less wear, they also wouldn't be perfect matches to each sword as they are still made to a pattern by the Koshirae maker.

[Bruce Pennington]

I think John may be onto something. After re-examining them, each of the ashi on each gunto match in design - leaf style, ridges along bands or no ridge, etc - and are clearly made by the same maker, therefore not added later. The odds of someone, post-war, adding a removable ashi onto a 98 that EXACTLY matches the design of the first ashi, is astronomical.

 

Neil, sorry for stirring up the pot! But I think my first idea was still the correct one - something causes wear on the top ashi that doesn't affect the bottom one (or as John proposed, the second one was often removed and reserved for formal use; but that is something I have not read definitively about).

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce , no worries , this is a forum for ideas, discoveries , and. arriving at the truth . Your observation about the identical nature of fittings is spot on . Finding exact matches would like be winning the lottery . If any second hanger was added post war, it would need to be of the same vintage and manufacturer . Not easy to do . 

It was always my understanding that the removable second ashi was just that , REMOVABLE, so as John says , only used on rare occasions . So there is a strong chance that they did not see wear inducing service . Other wise , why was it removable? A complicated piece of engineering to taken off and only used when required . And probably stored safely and in good condition until required .

Any way they are all '94 pattern, the fittings match perfectly well, I am happy to have them. 

[reeder]

How do you know this ?

Bc I read posts, know where you got it from, and know you added the ashi to that one in particular. ???? assuming it’s the same one I suppose. Nothing wrong with correcting/completing them. Wish I had some that worked on mine!

[reeder]

Here’s the Type 94 I owned. Mounts were mint, as found, blade was scratched up and mumei & tired so regrettably let it go. All of the gendai I have that are dated pre-38 are missing removeable ashi. Some look like they never even had it on the saya (no marks from being there).

[Bruce Pennington]

Interesting. Seems to be Ohmura’s type 2 with that spring

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Does anyone have examples of Type 94 with two Haikan that have been clearly carried in the field; i.e. leather combat covers, clearly matching wear and patina consistent with long term use?

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce , here is a 6th variety of second ashi. Hinged one side , 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Never seen that one, published or otherwise. As always, your collection never ceases to amaze.

[reeder]

Bc I read posts, know where you got it from, and know you added the ashi to that one in particular. ???? assuming it’s the same one I suppose. Nothing wrong with correcting/completing them. Wish I had some that worked on mine!

Sorry went back to look, it appears I confused swords. My bad, Neil.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Here is some interesting information about official regulations regarding use of the 2nd hangars: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/type-94-katana-711219/

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce , here is a 6th variety of second ashi. Hinged one side ,

 

That's a new one for the books Neil! Thanks for posting!