Prices of NCO swords nowadays

[Stephen]

amazing where new collectors have taken these prices, not long ago $300 was " you paid what?" $200 for extra clean like this the norm.

[vajo]

How much then for a copper handled nco?

[Stephen]

4-500$

 

Even less if vet find and not gun show.

[vajo]

Oh wow. Now you pay $3000. 

[lonely panet]

yep, i only paid 600 Aussie for mine with its original buckle tassel less then 6 years ago. 

 

 I don't know why there so popular, to cause such demand.

[Austo1]

I agree with Hamfish and Stephen...... I dont know why NCO swords are so popular.

In the early days, I wouldn't even make an offer for them and later paid from $40 up to $200 for one in similar condition to the one I now have for sale. They are not something that I would keep in my personal collection, although I would personally say the same for Emura and Mantetsu.

However there is a collecting niche for them all. That is what collecting is all about and collectors set the market value of any item. We as collectors, will only pay what the item is worth.....to us.

If there are any collectors out there who have picked up good NCO's a number of years back for a just a few dollars and now want to part with them, then i would be happy to offer them what they paid back then, if they don't think they are worth their current market value.

All of us collectors like a bargain.

Happy Collecting

Doug

[barnejp]

It is now a question of who is buying?

1) Copper handle blades...rare but who is now willing to spend 3000$US plus

2) Mantetsu: Great blade, high quality steel. Recent market China. Like all things Asian...the trend to buy Mantetsu is declining.

3) NCO. Nice blade, nice mountings, if all original but again where is the current market(buyers)?

This, of course, is only my opinion.

 

Comments welcomed as always.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[Stephen]

Emura should not be on the list. Yes ive seen hohum Emura but if you've had that special one youd swear it was a koto blade.

[barnejp]

I agree. But once again, who is willing to throw down that kind of $ to purchase a Emura?

[vajo]

Emura smith a not a single person. It depends witch prisoner makes it. There where some very talented swordsmith in prison and they make fabulous swords. The overall quality of Emura swords is very good.

 

Btw, i have none Emura or Mantetsu in collection and search further for a nice one to add. Maybe sometime i will found one that will fit.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Perhaps make another topic in the military section rather than discussing it on Dougs listing.

[16k]

I know I wanted to have an NCO sword in my collection, but no way I’m gonna pay more than $1000 for a machine made sword!

 

Those prices are just plain crazy!

[Rich S]

Please don't put Emura in the same class as NCO.  While Emuras vary in quality, there are some that are outstanding IMHO.

Rich

[Stephen]

I agree it should be split.
The answer to this question

"I agree. But once again, who is willing to throw down that kind of $ to purchase a Emura?"

I for one even more if it was the one i sold for 3K 20 some years ago.

 

 

 

Edit thank you for the spilt, sorry i side tracked it. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Stephen

[PNSSHOGUN]

Some of these swords are a bit "collecting by the numbers" sorts of pieces, you have to have them because they're published in all the books and every other serious collector has one, whether or not they are exciting or a bit dull is where the rubber meets the road.

[Dave R]

It's the difference between "Militaria" and "Nihonto"! Go onto a WW2 collection site, and see what is paid for a crap quality (by sword collector standards), aluminium handled Lufwaffe sword.....

 

 Add in rarity, because NCO swords were the first to go into the dumping scows.....

[16k]

I think rarity is all relative. You can still see many of them around, and even though I’ll let you experts confirm it, they were probably made into greater number than even Seki gunto.

 

I believe one of the reasons is the word “samurais sword = quality” even in the least knowledgeable people’s minds. So quality =money and you always find a gullible buyer thinking he’s bought a genuine, antique sword.

 

From there, other sellers notice that it sells even at higher prices and the vicious circle starts, with one becoming even greedier than the other. It’s often the case when you tackle niche collections.

[Stegel]

When i started to collect "militaria" in the form of type 95 NCO's, you could get them for $250-$350 AU, my first copper handled piece was $700, but it was in mint condition, and several years down the track.. not long after F&G's 2nd book 1996 and Dawsons 1st edition also 1996, was released.

 

With NCO's,I think that because prices have been creeping up over the last 15-20yrs at a greater rate than other gunto, they are seen by some to be an 'investment' option which provides growth and the option to cash out at the 'end' - while still being able to enjoy a collection of sorts.

There are also Collectors of all things Japanese (WW2), and only want one sword to complement their displays, most invariably go for the T95 sword, before adding a T98. Note that battle damaged items are not frowned upon, but actually desired by some collectors.

 

As i've said in the past to others who chose to start collecting, the NCO variants provide a limited spectrum of collecting, which depending on how far you want to take it can be big or small, however, a perceived "end" to the collection can be seen, thus completing the collection if you like (at each collectors personal comfort/interest point). What puts the type95 in greater preference to the type32, is the more 'Japan-easy' feel  (i'm so sorry, i don't believe i actually wrote that! -no offense meant )

I think traditionally made nihonto have also risen in value over the years, not at the same rate, but risen non the less.

Some people are still willing to invest in polishes for these blades which further pushes their value up upon resale but not necessarily, in all cases, to the point of a complete recompense. I think these prices are generally much higher than current NCO prices, and not everyone is comfortable in doing this.

Non-traditional blades don't normally get the same treatment, so, i think have not seen as great a rise in prices

 

Years ago i wanted to collect the Yasukuni shrine smiths, why not? it's a limited list isn't it??

What stopped me was the variety of blades each smith produced, then the fact that each blade started from 3K (which is now much more!) and i would perhaps need to replace the war time polish to really enjoy the blade, multiply that by some 15 smiths and it gets to be a rich mans hobby.

 

I also thought about getting and example from each of the 5 major schools of smithing, but didn't, as i only really liked the blades from one of them.

Incidentally, i do have several nihonto in my 'other' collection  if you could call it that.

Personally, i chose what i believe to be the common mans more realistic option, in militaria and T95 NCO swords.  Not everybody's cup of tea and i fully understand that.

 

DaveR hit it on the head, with Militaria vs nihonto, overall there would be more collectors of the first type in my opinion.

 

I don't agree with the comment 

 

Some of these swords are a bit "collecting by the numbers" sorts of pieces, you have to have them because they're published in all the books and every other serious collector has one, whether or not they are exciting or a bit dull is where the rubber meets the road

as they are NOT  fully documented in all the books, just the very basic info, expanded a little with each new book..... you'll learn more here on the forum than in the book.

What has made my collecting enjoyable is finding out more about them with each year that i've been collecting, that is where the finer details come into play- for me at least.

 

I also don't quite understand what is being meant here, ALL pieces in my collection are Genuine and antiques. I don't believe that as a collector of militaria, particularly type 95 NCO's, that i or other collectors are gullible.

If you're making reference to the numerous fakes being sold, then i get it, but that's not the reason IMO why prices have risen.

 

I believe one of the reasons is the word “samurais sword = quality” even in the least knowledgeable people’s minds. So quality =money and you always find a gullible buyer thinking he’s bought a genuine, antique sword.

 

 

Just my opinion, based on my own collecting experiences.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Stegel what I was referring to was many military swords are ones a collector "needs to have" because every other collector has them and every source they find mentions them. Whether or not the swords themselves are particularly interesting in comparison to others for the collector is swept aside because it's just the done thing. I don't find Type 95's that interesting but have certainly toyed with the idea of buying one simply to round out the collection and have all the major types of military sword represented. I doubt that will ever happen now with current prices skyrocketing and real Nihonto/Gendaito going for similar prices.

 

Mind you I did recently buy a Zohei-To arsenal made blade in officers mounts so the traditional vs non-traditional blade argument isn't one to stand on.

[Stegel]

OK, i may have gone off on a tangent with that, but i now see exactly what you meant, and can agree with you.

Thanks for clarifying.

[16k]

As for me, I never meant NCO swords weren’t authentic. What I mean is the iconic imagery associated with Japanese swords:samurai, seppuku, jidai geki... they make the Japanese sword look like an almost supernatural object.

 

Therefore, a guy who knows nothing about sword will buy an authentic NCO sword thinking he’s just bought a handmade samurai sword when he’s actually just bought a machine made sword that was never held by an actual samurai.

 

That’s what I mean by gullible. Thinking he’s buying an ancient sword, he’s ready to pay a hefty sum for what is only a militarisa collectible (note I have nothing against those swords as frequenting this board has opened my eyes to the wealth of interest these swords represent), and since this attitude is repeated all across eBay, it drives the prices up.

[Stegel]

Thanks for clearing that up, its all fallen into place and i can see your comments in the correct light now! 

[Rich S]

I agree it should be split.

The answer to this question

 

"I agree. But once again, who is willing to throw down that kind of $ to purchase a Emura?"

 

I for one even more if it was the one i sold for 3K 20 some years ago.

 

 

 

 

3K ??!!  I never paid over $350.00 for my Emura (three of them). Of course that was 40 years ago. I guess some swords do go up in price

Rich

[vajo]

Hi Rich

40 years ago 350 Dollar are now 3.000 Dollar ????

 

The Dollar loss is 96% since 1875?

[Stephen]

Doc thats what i sold it for think i paid 400$. Rumor was it sold to Japan and papered.

[Rich S]

I guess I better hold on to my Emura as I couldn't afford one now

 

Chris - actually I doubt the US dollar is really not worth the paper/rag it is printed on given the US national debt can never be paid. Maybe we should give the US back to the native Americans or swap it for a few beads :-)

 

Rich

[Bruce Pennington]

I guess I better hold on to my Emura as I couldn't afford one now

 

Chris - actually I doubt the US dollar is really not worth the paper/rag it is printed on given the US national debt can never be paid. Maybe we should give the US back to the native Americans or swap it for a few beads :-)

 

Rich

Ha! I'd swap it for a 1945 Mantetsu! (just kidding, of course! But almost true!)

[vajo]

Interesting. The german DM was 1979 (40 years ago) 1,71 Dollar. You must pay 1,71 DM for 1 Dollar. So if you sell a NCO for 350 Dollar we in Germany must pay 598,50 German Mark.

What was the relation between the price and the worth? The gasprice was 0,99 German Mark for a litre 1979. A VW Golf (Rabbit) costs around 12.000 DM. The middle income was 1400 DM. A NCO sword costs 600 DM. Very interesting the we must pay 40% of a medium monthly income in 1979 for a NCO sword in relation to the dollar.

So a NCO Sword wasn't cheap here in Germany. The medium income in Germany 2019 is now at 3.500 EUR (around 7.000 DM) before tax. The price for a NCO now between 800 - 1000 EUR. Thats relative cheap against the income now.

A VW Golf now costs 29.000 EUR (58.000 DM). 

 

I think that a investment in a good NCO for around 1.000 EUR is reasonable.

 

Maybe you can make some maths in US-Dollar for the US to find out the value now.

[ChrisW]

It could simply be that gunto are finding more and more acceptance as nihonto.. 

 

Perhaps the definition of nihonto is gradually changing and its becoming less about the means of production and more about the lineage behind them? Indeed, the WWII soldier of Japan was the endpoint of the samurai history, especially with how the Imperial government propagandized and made each soldier feel like a warrior of the emperor, which in the past were the samurai.

 

To that effect, it was unheard of (or so I gather) that any gendaito papered in the past, and now some are apparently. Yes, gendaito are traditionally made, but they were almost looked down upon because they weren't from the 'traditional timeframe' of nihonto production.

 

And I do understand the massive difference between gendaito and machine-made blades; but to the uninitiated, there's little difference. And that's where a lot of money is coming from for these items these days.

 

 

Of course, I could be entirely wrong. Just my humble opinion as an outsider.

[dwmc]

I recall seeing NCO's in the mid 1970's for $75 to $100 on a fairly regular basis here in the US. That would translate to approx. $360 to $480 today.

 

Dave M.