Type 95 Black Saya

[John C]

Interesting. I didn't notice the double release buttons.

John C. 

[John C]

On 12/12/2022 at 7:47 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Interesting piece.  The double release buttons usually carry a star-stamped RJT blade.  Here's the mei.  Admittedly, the habaki is still in place, but I think we would still the a star if it were there:

Update: Just heard back from the seller. He/she indicate there is no star stamp on the blade. This could be a Frankenblade or maybe the seller is mistaken.

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

9 hours ago, John C said:

no star stamp

Thanks for checking, John.  With gunto, there is a well-known saying "Never say never, nor always!"  So, not surprised.

[Bruce Pennington]

A Suya 95 posted by @Leon HERE.  Note the wear and even black paint in the serial number!

 

[Shamsy]

On 12/16/2022 at 1:24 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

black paint in the serial number!

 

 

Not paint; most of the deeper serial numbers are dark like that, from temper, grime or age. Check out the example on page 6 of the Fake 95 thread to see what I mean.

[Bruce Pennington]

A Type 19, sorry, not a 95, but relevant to the paint discussion:

 

[Bridges]

Someone posted what appears to be a late war, type 98 in a Reddit group I’m in. Note the black saya

[Bruce Pennington]

Bad lighting can do funny things to colors. I see the section that looks black, but to my eye, and on my phone that is probably just a dark brown.
 

Blade still has the cosmoline from the war! Maybe he will share the rest of the sword with us!

[Bridges]

I hope so Bruce, I sent him our link. Guess time will tell

[Bridges]

Found this on fleebay.

[John C]

4 hours ago, Bridges said:

Found this on fleebay.

FYI I posted this on page 4 with the link a couple of weeks ago.

John C.

[Bridges]

Thanks John, seller must’ve reposted it

[Bruce Pennington]

And now, for your viewing pleasure, a black painted police dirk!  Posted by Goldendrachen on this Warrelics Thread.  Most of the paint is worn off, but you can see that it was there.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A Type 98.  Saya looks black in the photos, but it is just the lighting, but all the metal parts are painted black.  It's got an old family blade in it, and celluloid same'.  Good friend of mine knows the owner who said categorically this was brought home from the war this way.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

I think this is our first Type 32 with black paint.  Posted by DaSwede on this Gunboards thread.

[Shamsy]

I do have a black painted saya on one of my Type 32 as well...

[BANGBANGSAN]

11 hours ago, Shamsy said:

I do have a black painted saya on one of my Type 32 as well...

+1

[Bruce Pennington]

The second Type 19 I now have on file.  Black saya showing considerable wear.  On an Affiliated Auction

[Bruce Pennington]

Not sure if this one qualifies for the discusson, as it might have been made all-black from the factory/shop.  Has a May 1942 Ryuu blade in it.

 

 

Stamped number already recorded in the Stamps Survey.

[Bruce Pennington]

Doesn't add anything new to our understanding of these, but I don't have anything else going on!  Found this Tokyo Type 95 with black saya for sale by Affinity Antique Auctions

[Bruce Pennington]

Another Type 32, KO, posted by Bestmsdt at this Warrelics Thread.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A good example of why this debate is so difficult, as some gunto were truly painted by post-war collectors.  This one popped up on this Wehrmacht-awards thread.  Les checked with the owner and confirmed he had stripped the saya and painted it black.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A Type 19 with black saya found HERE.

[Mister Gunto]

Here are my two with black painted sayas. First is a Type 99 Otsu, matching numbers on blade and scabbard. (Ignore the repro strap, just had to put it somewhere)

 

Second is  Kyu-Gunto with what's probably a koto ( muromachi) shortened Nihonto blade. 

 

Trying to upload from my phone, so please bear with me...

[Mister Gunto]

I think the Type 99 paint is original, possibly done when the blade was arsenal refurbished.

 

[Mister Gunto]

I had originally thought the black overpaint on the Kyu was also period, maybe to cover the chromed scabbard for field use? But the scabbard ring was on upside-down when I got it. I took it off and flipped it, and you can see where the shiny metal is underneath.  So, perhaps an old postwar repaint by some vet or earlier collector? 

[Mister Gunto]

Closer shot...

[JohnWB]

Here's this one currently on ebay:

 

https://www.ebay.com...r=artemis&media=COPY

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow, good one, John!

[Conway S]

Greetings, 

 

I couldn't find the thread where @Stegel posted the comparison photo of the variations in saya color or I would post this there.  It has some good wear to it and from the pictures posted I could not see any other paint beneath the brown. I asked the seller for better pictures of the throat to see if it was painted green and/or had a matching serial number. Alas, it sold before the seller sent the pictures. From the pictures of the fuchi, it looks like it only has the 東 and no visible Iijima logo or Tokyo First arsenal stamp. Any thoughts on whether this brown is original? 

 

Conway 

 

Antique/Vintage WW2 Japanese Sword