Type 95 Black Saya

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 7/1/2021 at 6:57 PM, Kolekt-To said:

my Type 95 with the black saya

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What's the serial number on that?  Contractor?

[Kolekt-To]

  On 7/2/2021 at 1:49 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

What's the serial number on that?  Contractor?

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Iijima, Tokyo First, Kokura. The last two numbers are not clear and are difficult for me to identify (on both blade and saya), but, as best as I can tell, the serial number is: 24908. The numbers on the blade and saya do appear to be matched. Don't tell me I have one of your old 95's Bruce. Lol!

[Bruce Pennington]

No, I don't let go of my gunto!  I just curious if the black-painted gunto were in a particular serial number range.  Mine is 10506, but with Gifu and Nagoya stamps.  But even though different contractors, ours were made within a similar time-frame.  We'll have to take a look at the others.  Maybe this practice can be narrowed down to a specific time or year of the war.

 

Edit: after a scan of the serial numbers posted already, they are all over the place, with even late-war versions painted black.  Suya, Iijima, Seki contractors.  So, that idea was a dead-end.

[Kiipu]

Below is a link to an older, but nevertheless informative, GBF thread about the Type 95 black scabbard.

Imperial Japanese Type 95 NCO Gunto Question

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Another Type 98 with black tsuba and darkened ito.  My first thought is the tsuba was spray-painted post-war, and still could be.  But the ito is almost black, but that looks like weathering of some sort.  Maybe not in the same class as all these on this thread, but close enough to include.

Found on a fleabay sale noted on this NMB thread.

[Kiipu]

A 1:22 minute YouTube video was posted by @ww2shingunto that shows a black painted Type 95 handle.  He mentions seeing another one with a black painted handle.  The metal-scabbard color kinda eludes me as how best to describe it, a rusty looking brown?

WW2 Japanese Type 95 Shin Gunto late war NCO sword
 

  Quote

Mass produced katana

Matching numbers 217279

Nagoya made

Usually unpainted wood, this sword has a very rare factory painted black handle. I have seen one other, numbered 217350. There must have been a limited run of this type for unknown reasons

Still raining outside, sorry for the noise

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[Bruce Pennington]

A couple of screenshots:

 

[Kolekt-To]

Cool look, but strange. This ain't your typical Pineapple sword!

[Bruce Pennington]

Another Type 98 (right now just tsuba pics) from @Corry's thread All Matching Seppa Marked 1.

[Bruce Pennington]

Durrel's (Corry) saya:

[Bruce Pennington]

A star-stamped 1943 Kanetsugu in black saya and fittings.  Found HERE.

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another listed: https://www.ebay.com/itm/403212659242?hash=item5de158ea2a:g:CNIAAOSwf89hXcKe

 

[IJASWORDS]

An EMURA in black Saya. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Interesting with the screw up top as well as, I assume, below.

[3rd Wave]

This is really interesting discussion.   The Type 95 that i recently purchased has a dark green paint.   I've noticed that it has a texture to it almost like it was wrapped in a cloth while still tacky.  Makes me wonder if this wasnt done to remove the metallic sheen and make the saya more appropriate for night operations.   Just a thought.   I can see the IJA doing this as they were meticulous in camoflauge and dedicated night fighters as well.   It seems aa plausible a reason as any.

[Kiipu]

  Quote

Metal Finish:

Early rifles were blued, but this was often very thinly applied and was quickly augmented with a thin coat of black paint.  Both flat and gloss paint were utilized throughout the production of the Naval Special Type 99 rifles and carbines, and the quality of the paint varied considerably.  Some rifles exhibit paint only on the exposed metal surfaces, while others have the paint also on the metal surfaces visible only after removal from the stock.  Some rifles have paint on some surfaces and bluing on others.  Within the 10,000–17,000 serial number range, red paint began to appear in place of, or in combination with, the black paint.  Finally, a few rifles have been reported which appear to have received neither bluing nor paint.  It is not known for certain if the final finish was applied by the Toyokawa Naval Arsenal after the serial numbers were stamped or were applied by the Naval Supervised Factories.

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Source: Allan, Francis C., and Carl J. Goddard. The Japanese Naval Special Type 99 Rifles and Carbines. Anchorage, Alaska: AK Enterprises, 1999. Page 36.

 

@Shamsy & @Stegel I thought you two might enjoy this passage about paint in regards to naval manufactured rifles.  I know Stegel has mentioned the use of both gloss and matte black paint and I found it interesting that both were noted on the rifles.  Hope this helps in your scholarly endeavors.

[Shamsy]

I really need to do a lengthy post here with my most current thoughts on black Type 95 saya set out. I'll get to it soon!

[Kiipu]

Cross-Reference

Early sword in resting scabbard

[Dave R]

 I just checked, and though I have posted this before, on another thread, I think it has a place here. Bought from a Japanese vendor and sold as a full koshirae, I think it was actually a collection of pieces put together for sale.... The black paint/lacquer on the gilded tsuba is the bit I see as relevant to this thread. Not really clear in the pic's but the gilding is in good bright condition.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks @Dave R, I really think these black-painted items are period legit and were done intentionally for some reason.

[Bruce Pennington]

A pristine Type 98 example found by @Stephen on a Yahoo auction:

 

[Kiipu]

Saw this Kōbe made Type 95, serial 142498, with a black painted scabbard.  Judging by the pictures, this is likely a repaint.

WWII Imperial Japanese Army NCO Combat Sword And Scabbard

[Bruce Pennington]

Just to add drama to the "black-painted saya" story - a Type 19 on that big Lloyds auction, with an unknown shop stamp:

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A real nice example on @Chrometank's thread HERE.  Like all of these, it has evidence of original wear and tear, then a black repaint, which itself is aged and worn appropriate to a WWII gunto.

 

[Shamsy]

A good example of a period, but not original, black saya.

[Lareon]

My black painted 95 for inclusion in the thread. Barely any damage to the paint

[Bruce Pennington]

An interesting one over at Gunboards.  Not completely painted.  Spot-painted sarute barrel screw.  Fuchi, top section of the saya.  Looks quite old and shows wear and tear.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A black painted Rinji saya on a Munetoshi, star-stamped gunto.  Posted by @Pippo HERE.

[Kiipu]

Another Type 95 Military Sword, serial 113550東, with a black painted scabbard and hilt.

 

  Quote

The aluminium hilt has lost virtually all of its copper brown paint and appears to have been painted black at some stage; the few remnants of the black indicate it is period, that the hilt was coated black for active duty purposes. The steel saya / scabbard has most of its black paint remaining; please note, when I say "paint", I do not mean regular (later) paint, but a coating I am sure is period.

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WW2 Japanese Army NCO's Katana, 1935P, rare variant, (sold)

[Bruce Pennington]